The new Y1 phonics screening check

[SoundsWrite]

The government's new phonics screening check is to be launched in England in June.
The results of the test will be given to the parents of each individual child but each individual school's results will not be made public.
What is the view on Mumsnet? Do you think the results should be made public or not? Either way, why or why not?
You can find out more about this test by going to the DfE site: www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/a00198207/faqs-year-1-phonics-screening-check

No, Feenie, that is not what I said and I don't know where you got that from.

We were discussing 'joined' for 'jound', no? The child read 'joined' - that's a guess. It isn't reading.

Oh ffs.

Read what I've written.

"using a variety of tactics

doesn't help around 100,000 children a year."

As I wrote, he was taught using only phonics. The variety of tactics comes FROM HIMSELF. SCHOOL TEACHES PHONICS, HE USES VARIOUS TACTICS INCLUDING A BIT OF COMMON SENSE.

"Maizie's comments referred to sounds taught in Y1, not a ceiling on Y1's phonic knowledge. A mark would be given if the sound was plausible.
Your ds has not been taught phonics properly if he isn't used to reading nonsense words. It's a standard check - that's why it is used in this test. It's a little worrying that his instinct on seeing an unknown word is to 'guess' it. That might hamper him when enocuntering unknown words in the future."

That was what I was saying about the teaching - that if a child is reading ahead of where they should be, they are encountering words that are not 'taught' in Y1 - is that hard to understand?

And of course he has been taught the phonics properly. He got 38/40 on the test. His instinct on seeing an unknown word is not to guess it. As I have said on at least 3 posts.

I'm really frustrated that you, who have never met my ds1 and have no idea about his reading can write posts like the above. You're saying that he's going to be hampered in the future, essentially because he is reading challenging texts....

He is not guessing words, but we all, once we are 'away' reading use a variety of methods - mostly memory, and in English that is essential. But we also do use context, and common sense. Otherwise how would you ever read rough, tough, bough and ought?

You are so defensive about this phonics check, but I think it's pretty worrying that you're blinkered that some very able children might perform unexpectedly.

And do you honestly think it's a good use of time for a child who is a fantastic reader, and AVID to read books , to practise alien words? I don't.

It would be a guess if that child were still at the decoding-only stage of reading. But, as LilyBolero explains, her DS is way ahead of decoding-only and is reading for meaning - and therefore assumes any word he encounters is a word known to him in his spoken language.

I agree totally with Bonsoir on this, especially about the 'window of decoding'.

feenie, if you've 'never seen a 5 yo do this' you must have had very uniform 5yos in your class.

Reading English, you HAVE to use other tactics once you're over the initial start. There are too many variables.

And yy that reading is ultimately about gathering meaning from written text. That is why if you are beyond the typical Y1 decoding level, the test is inappropriate.

(Before you all misinterpret the last post) - that is not to say that other tactics need to be taught, but they develop naturally as you become more fluent.

There are too many instances in this thread where "reading" and "decoding" have been used interchangeably. They are not the same thing.

Exactly Bonsoir. And decoding is the tool you use at the beginning, most older children don't use 'phonic decoding' when they are reading, and nor does my Y1 boy, most of the time.

I also think this thread throws up interesting points about the educational establishment underestimating the natural intelligence and rationality of children...

It's a guess. He didn't read 'jound' correctly. He guessed it instead.

It's not a difficult word. It's not implausible that he may come across an existing word which is just as easily read but a real one - and guess it. Just keep an eye, is all.

I don't think it's a waste of time in everyday teaching to use alien words, no - it lets me know that children can use their decoding strategies well. I still use this strategy in Y5 with some excellent readers. It's very useful for reading and spelling.

And once you're beyond that stage, I think it's hard to 'switch it off'.

My older children could turn it off, but that's because they've been reading longer, and are not encountering new words so much, so if there's a nonsense word, they are more confident in making it a nonsense word.

Sure. Adults don't use phonic decoding - the eye and brain recognise whole words (up to eight letters) at a time - unless they encounter a very long and unfamiliar word and apply phonic decoding consciously to read it.

You are quite wrong on this, Feenie.

I also think this thread throws up interesting points about the educational establishment underestimating the natural intelligence and rationality of children...

Does it? I would expect high level 5 children to still use this strategy when reading and spelling unknown words...still, at 75% + level readers most years, maybe we are getting things wrong?

That would be 75%+ level 5 readers.

Bonsoir, you are entitled to your opinion. But since we don't fail ANY of our children in reading, never mind 20%, I am quite happy that I am not, thank you.

Think about, Feenie, and try reading Stanislas Dehaene's Reading in the Brain, which explains it in a lot more scientific detail than I can do here!

Ah, the spelling one.

I disagree fundamentally that it is good for spelling. My dd who was the most comfortable with phonics had ABYSMAL spelling for years. She's now in year 4, and her spelling is MUCH better (largely down to doing lots of typing on the computer with the spell checker on). Ds1 who never 'got' phonics, despite being taught it, had much better spelling, because he knew what the word looked like. He is year 6 now, still has excellent spelling.

Only in our country would we prefer a child to write a 'phonically plausible' spelling rather than knowing the correct one!!!

Look, I'm not against phonics, they've served dd well, and ds2 is flying having used the phonics method. But the test, and especially teaching to the test, is a waste of time for the able kids. And the Y1 teachers I know also think this (I haven't asked my ds' teacher, but I have various friends teaching Y1). But if a teacher who is reading with the children every week isn't aware of any phonics problems lurking, they aren't a very aware teacher tbh.

"Does it? I would expect high level 5 children to still use this strategy when reading and spelling unknown words...still, at 75% + level readers most years, maybe we are getting things wrong?"

I think you are giving the phonics too much credit - my level 5 reading children would very rarely use phonics. They might use a dictionary to check spelling though...

Just asked dd (Y4, level 5 reader and writer), she said she never ever uses phonics in reading, and only very occasionally in writing if she's doing a piece of work in school, but hardly ever.

That's what she says. She is clearly doing really well in reading and writing - nothing to worry about there!!!

LilyBolero - "Only in our country would we prefer a child to write a 'phonically plausible' spelling rather than knowing the correct one!!!"

I'm sorry to have to tell you that I have encountered this in French, too. My absolute favourite was my DD in her end of year exam last summer writing a story. She wrote cantilavé (phonically plausibly perfect) when the correct spelling would have been Quand il avait (=when he had).

I also think that too much phonically plausible spelling interferes with learning correct spelling.

The efficient way to learn to spell correctly and automatically is to read the word correctly spelled many times over, and to reproduce it correctly in writing.

Yy, the reading is the key to good spelling!

Bonsoir with respect what we are discussing here is a decoding test which consists of a list of real words and non words. The child is told that some of the words are made up and they need to "decode" the words. The government has even decided to put pictures of "aliens" next to the non words to identify them from real words.
It is purely and simply a test of whether the child can apply their phonic knowledge.

Those people saying you shouldn't be using a variety of tactics, how on earth would you teach the ought, tough, bough, not to mention you and could. That,s at least 5versions of the ou sound - seems silly to have that one on the test! Poor 5yos, faced with 'is it jowned or jooned or jund or jorned or what'.

Lily by the end of Y1 a child should have been taught the alternative ways of writing the sounds in the English spelling system. Maizie asked if it was likely to have encountered "rough & tough" and the answer is most certainly yes they should have been taught it.

A widely read intelligent child using their knowledge of words from their reading would be aware that no words contain the letters ou to represent the sound oi