The new Y1 phonics screening check

[SoundsWrite]

The government's new phonics screening check is to be launched in England in June.
The results of the test will be given to the parents of each individual child but each individual school's results will not be made public.
What is the view on Mumsnet? Do you think the results should be made public or not? Either way, why or why not?
You can find out more about this test by going to the DfE site: www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/pedagogy/a00198207/faqs-year-1-phonics-screening-check

no MerryMarigold the purpose of the test is to identif stugglingy childrenso that they can be helped to catch up in Y2.

How does she tackle a new word though, Lily - it's the same thing. I'm sure that doesn't reduce her to tears?

But Rosebud, Michael Rosen wasn't defending a different opinion to mine!

How would she cope with Lewis Carroll Lily

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

or even Milligan

On the Ning Nang Nong


		

On the Ning Nang Nong

Where the Cows go Bong!
and the monkeys all say BOO!
There's a Nong Nang Ning
Where the trees go Ping!
And the tea pots jibber jabber joo.
On the Nong Ning Nang
All the mice go Clang
And you just can't catch 'em when they do!
So its Ning Nang Nong
Cows go Bong!
Nong Nang Ning
Trees go ping
Nong Ning Nang
The mice go Clang
What a noisy place to belong
is the Ning Nang Ning Nang Nong!!

or good old Dr Seuss?

MM - you are being very generous. Why shouldn't parents get mad at school if their child isn't learning to read?

If the parent already knows the child is behind, and they're happy that school are doing everything they can, then they won't be cross.

Otherwise they have every reason to be cross.

My DD learned to read in French with a (old) French synthetic phonics method, Bien Lire et Aimer Lire. It is much harder to write fully decodable books in French than in English (making the early part of learning to read harder, IMO) because there aren't many short phonetic words to start off with.

Hence the French synthetic phonics method that DD used had quite a few made up words in it (unlike the Jelly & Bean series she used for learning to read in English) in order to provide practice.

I would say that her tolerance for made up words was quite low, and that the emphasis on phonics via made-up words was not particularly helpful - the transition from phonetically plausible incorrect spelling to correct spelling (and French has an awful lot of homonyms for children to get to grips with) is harder for her in French than in English, and I can only attribute it to the teaching method.

With Dr Seuss/Lewis Caroll etc, it is not given as a 'list of 40 words to read as a test', so it is a different scenario. And actually, it might have made her cry.

New words - if they are 'real' words, she would have tended to know the word anyway (she always had a vocabulary way beyond her reading age, which was way beyond her real age).

I was talking about this with her Y1 teacher (she's now Y4), and she agreed that she would have struggled. This is the child who cried about choosing a picture to go on her 'My World' book, because she couldn't work out if there was a 'right choice' or not. She has worked very very hard to overcome the unhelpful aspects of being a total perfectionist, she is now much better than she was, but still it sometimes 'gets' her.

Just pointing out that whilst this test may be all well and good in practice, it may be very distressing to some children, who are not necessarily the ones who need extra help in reading!

I had a look down the reading test example, and it does seem total insanity - 20 made up words, 20 'real' words. And English is not a language that has set 'phonic' rules.

For example, one word is something like Chort. Is that CH as in Child or Ch as in Chord? For any child beyond the basic phonics, as ds2 (currently Y1) is, that will be impossible to know.

Either would be acceptable answers, Lily, since Y1 children know that 'ch' makes more than one sound.

MM - you are being very generous. Why shouldn't parents get mad at school if their child isn't learning to read?

Well, if they really don't know their child is struggling to read by the end of Y1 they are unlikely to be parents who care very much.

And because the phonics test, as pointed out before, is not a test of reading (which apparently happens at the Y2 SAT). It is a test of phonic decoding. So the school may be excellent at teaching phonics overall and have fantastic marks overall, but some kids just struggle with it and they DO need different strategies. I haven't worked it out, but I know my ds1 is intelligent yet really struggles with phonic decoding - maybe it is an auditory thing, and my dsis who is a teacher herself and fluent reader says the same thing about the way she reads, she just 'sees' whole words unlike me. I decode all the time. I have a different kind of brain and that's ok. This way the kid feels bad, the parent feels bad, the school is in trouble when actually they may have fantastic strategies to help a child who doesn't 'get' phonics, but this won't show up in the test.

Lily, AFAIU there would be a context for the non words that would be explained to the DC eg these are words that an alien might use on another planet where they have the same rules as we do about how to sound out words etc.

MM, early exposure to books means that learning how to read will always be via mixed methods. I have this theory that DC who have had less exposure to the written word before they are taught to read via SSP actually stand a better chance of 'getting it' from the off.

Maybe pickled. Ds1 certainly has had plenty of exposure to books though a lot of other kids who are doing fine also have. I can already see how 'different' his learning methods are from ds2. I think (not there yet) that ds2 will have no problem with phonics. Ds1 is extremely visual, very arty but struggles with verbal maths problems, anything more basic than 1 instruction, though his hearing is fine. I'm sure if your brain struggles with auditory processing somehow then phonics is very hard for you because it's all about what it sounds like, and you have to 'break down' what it looks like. If your brain sees things in 'wholes' it's much harder, of course not impossible, but it is a lot harder. I actually heard of a teacher (through my sister) who has a kid like this in her class and is helping him by different methods (don't know what), but has to also teach the phonics so she needs 2 plans for him all the time - her plan, which she knows is working, and the 'official' plan which is not working, but has to be shown that it is being done. It's ridiculous!

Well, if they really don't know their child is struggling to read by the end of Y1 they are unlikely to be parents who care very much. - or they know that their child is struggling, but they don't realise that the other children aren't struggling, and that most other children have picked it up by now.

And school keep telling them not to worry, so they don't.

Loads and loads of worried parents come on here where school tell them not to worry, and they should be worrying.

I don't agree with this test. I've done a practice with my children and the results were quite interesting. I have a girl in my class who is a very able reader. She is also excellent at writing. She and another child are some way ahead of all the other children in the class. She came 7th in the class in our practice test.

It makes me sad to hear people talking about the test being a test of reading. It is not. It's a test of phonic knowledge and a way of teaching bashing.

As someone rightly said earlier, I know full well who the children with problems are in my class and they are already receiving as much support as we can give them. Why doesn't the government spend money on supporting the children rather than wasting it on a meaningless test?

Why didn't the girl do better in the test?

She didn't bother to sound out all of the non words - just skim read them. I asked her to try again and she got the words right but we are not allowed to say that in the actual test.

Yes, specialgun, I was wondering myself why it would take a simple test at the end of Y1 to show a teacher that a child is struggling in phonics ! What kind of teacher doesn't know that already? Maybe invest in some better training for teachers in alternative methods, rather than trying to force every child into a phonics box.

Indigo, the test won't change that. The school will still be able to say, "Don't worry, it's not really a test of reading..." whatever the score.

The purpose of the test is to make sure teachers are doing what they are supposed to be - if they are then there really shouldn't be any problems for anyone. The minority of DC for whom SSP is not the right method will be flagged up and the necessary steps can then be taken to ensure progress with those individuals.

If it's purely to test the teacher then results should be internal surely. And it shouldn't be done with so much fuss. Getting a child's individual score is going to mean nothing to a parent unless it's comparitive.

MerryMarigold - research shows that alternative methods, including mixed methds, have been failing 20% of children. Phonics - taught properly and exclusively - only fails a couple of percent of children, who will have specific difficulties which need addressing.

Getting your child's individual score will either mean that you as a parent can rest assured that everything is progressing as it should be wrt your DC learning to read or that other steps need to be put in place for your DC to continue or indeed begin to make progress in reading.

Why doesn't the government spend money on supporting the children - the govt is providing money to all infant schools to spend on new phonics books.

They have also provided a free phonics program (Letters & Sounds)

They have also paid for loads of research finding out what is the most effective way to teach reading.

I don't really see what else the govt could do.

This isn't about teacher bashing. Any teacher who is teaching their kids to read has nothing to be worried about. Any teacher who is struggling to teach more than a very small handful - needs to change what they do.

I don't see why it matters if your best reader doesn't do get the best result in the phonics test. That's not the point of the test.

The point is to force teachers to teach using phonics - because some teachers have spent so long resisting all the other govt directives that this is the most effective way.

If you're already doing a good job you've got nothing to worry about.

Very, very, very few kids can't learn using phonics but can learn using a different method. And they mostly have ASD or APD.

Once a school is routinely teaching the 98% of kids who can learn using phonics, then they'll have more time and money left to spend on the last few percent of kids who have SN like ASD or APD and who need more intense support.

Most kids like my DD who can't learn to read using phonics - also couldn't learn to read using any other method.

why it would take a simple test at the end of Y1 to show a teacher that a child is struggling in phonics ! What kind of teacher doesn't know that already? - any teacher that doesn't teach phonics.

Teachers can do anything they want. And some of them do not want to teach phonics.

Certainly my DS and DD (who are now in Y6 and Y4) weren't taught phonics in reception. DS was never taught phonics. The school brought phonics in when DD was in Y1.

But there are still schools that don't teach phonics - and certainly many, many schools that don't teach it very well.