Is it possible to turn an underachieving school around from the outside?

[onesandwichshort]

DD is in reception and I'm increasingly realising that her school, although very kindly and well-meaning is educationally under-achieving in quite a big way. This isn't just my opinion, several other of the parents in her class feel the same, and one of them is a primary teacher in another LEA, so knows what she's talking about.

We are all now wondering what to do next. As far as I can see there are two options, to go and see the various parent governors and talk to them about our concerns, and/or to go to the head and say that we have a problem. I'm particularly unsure about the latter course though as I think the head (who has high-end qualifications in indecisiveness and lack of vision) has very much set the tone throughout the school. And I can't say that doing either of these will result in a quick change.

Or do we accept that most schools are like this and supplement furiously outside? Or move? But there isn't an obvious good local alternative.

For the record, the school is satisfactory with some good features. When we went round they made much of their creative curriculum and inclusiveness, but they are much better at talking than action.

Letter to Head and governors expressing your concern?

What makes you think the school is underachieving? With respect a primary teacher in another LEA isn't in any better position than you to know if the school is under achieving or not. What level do children enter and how much progress do they make during their time there?

You can't change a school. And unless the HT leaves it's unlikely to change.

My recommendation would be to move school.

Once you feel like you do it's very hard to make it work.

But I agree with mrz that I wouldn't trust another mums opinion just because she's a teacher.

Children enter at a pretty average level I believe (certainly better than at some other local schools), but there is no way of measuring progress as they only go up to year 4. I suspect that this is why things are able to go on like this with no one noticing.

She can't tell absolute levels, but can notice the creativity of the curriculum (or lack of) and also how promised changes (which are for things which other schools locally are doing as a matter of course) do not materialise.

Indigo - we all feel the same way, it's just that I don't know how much I can legitimately expect from a school. She does.

There should be a way of measuring progress children are tracked every inch of their way through the education system if it is a state school.

With respect if she is teaching in another LEA how is she so knowledgeable about what is happening in a school when she isn't there? Don't be influenced by her opinion it is no more valid than your own ... go with your knowledge.

What it is about your child's progress in reception that makes you feel the school is failing? Who in school have you spoken to about this?

Sorry, but I don't really want to give too many details about the ins and outs of the problems on a public forum, I think there is a risk of it/me/the school being fairly identifiable. I don't feel the school is failing, just that they have a very low set of ambitions (in the widest sense of the word).

But the situation is sufficiently problematic that there are a group of parents who are all discussing taking our children out after a term and a half of reception - if there was an obvious second choice, some people would have gone already. Variously, people have spoken to the teacher and the deputy head; it's hard to see what going to the head will achieve other than putting his back up.

Ok. The first thing to do is look at the actual results. What do the year 2 and year 6 SATS look like? What is the VA score?

I think you will have to involve the Head. How else can you move forward unless you go way above Heads head to the LEA or ofsted? Copy to the Chair of Governors anything you send to the Head.

Seeker - It only goes up to year 4, so no year 6 sats and no VA. It also mean that I can't lay my hands on the Year 2 Sats results anywhere.

2boys - I think you're right about the Head.

Up to year 4? I've never heard of one of those before! Whwt happens to the children after year 4?

They can't not gove you the end of KS1 SATS- it's a statutory requirement that they publish them. But I see how VA could be a problem.

What makes you think the school is under achieving? Sorry, that doesn't sound right. I mean- what is your evidence? You'll need hard evidence to tackle the Head and the Chair of Governors.

Is it a state first school?
They should still be able to calculate value added

Seeker, they go to a middle school, which is a whole other educational can of worms (buries head in sand). And yes, is state first school.

I can't find value added or KS1 results on the main DofE website, I could ask the school I suppose.

When I say under-achieving, it's a bit broader than academic, more an absence of ambition and drive. I do have specific examples of problems with decision-making, or where good practice does not happen despite repeated requests and promises, but would rather not put them on here as it might be quite identifiable.

It does have some good points - they very much care about the welfare and the happiness of the children, but sometimes see this as their main purpose and forget about education.

You could ask the LEA as KS1 results are reported

Just email the school asking for q copy of their ks1 results. What did OFSTED say about attainment? I don't think you can go to the Head without some solid evidence. If he's good at talking th talk qs you say he'll just flannel you unless you've got facts.

www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report

I teach in a first school - don't think it's the one you're describing, as amongst other things we have a female head....

Year 2 SATs should be available. The school will obviously track every individual child through every year (for us, a key measure of success, tracked by the LEA, is progress made between end of Year 2 and end of Year 4 - 'on track' would be one whole NC level between those points).

Is it that you have a specific concern about progress within Reception (as that is what you have direct experience of)? Or that you have a concern about what you think you might be seeing as poor progress higher up the school?

If it is the former, then that is obviously a concern about your own child, and is easier to tackle. You speak to the class teacher to establish what progress your child is making, and whether they are 'on track' to achieve 'good' levels in the EYFS profile (6 points across all 13 areas is regarded, crudely, as good - expect more spikiness than that, though: you may find a child has an 8 in Creative Development but a lower score than 6 in e.g. one of the mathematical strands). If you are concerned about what you hear, you speak to the head. If you get no joy from the head, you write to the governors, copying it to the head.

If it is about the general 'level of achievement' all through the school, then your first port of call is to ask for the Year 2 SATs results. If those give you cause for concern, then you need to speak to the head as although there are no more 'standard' assessment points the head may well wish to reassure you by making a general comment about progress between Year 2 and Year 4. Again, if no joy from the head, try the Chair of Governors. Be aware though that unless the KS1 SATs results are clearly poor this is a harder concern to 'prove' than a worry about the progress of your individual child.

What does Ofsted say about the school? When was the last report done? If you have a substantive concern or complaint, then you can take it up with Ofsted which may trigger an inspection if substantial and substantiated.

There is no way that a school is easily going to improve unless the head teacher and staff are up to make it happen. I agree with MRZ that you need to treat with caution the comments from the parent who is a teacher. If in any discussion with head, governors or whatever there is talk about this teacher's professional opinion then I can more or less guarantee that the draw bridge will go up and nothing will be taken at face value. The reaction will be one of how dare they try and tell us what to do. As concerned parents you might just get a reaction that is positive.

It is very difficult to decide what is the best course of action but I think that it would be best to raise an official (in writing) complaint with the head teacher arguing that things that have been promised are not happening. The head will by virtue of being a formal complaint have to respond and there may well be good reasons why the promised things have not come about. If you do not get a sensible written response then the complaint can then be forwarded to the Chair of Governors. Do not go straight to the governors because they will just refer it back to the head. You need a formal response from the head before going to the governors.

Ofsted now have a facility for parents to comment on the school. They will not take anything forward if they are deluged with moans because they will see it for what it is, a concerted attempt to influence. But if there is a good trickle of complaints coming through over a number of months, then this could trigger an inspection. They at least will be able to make a professional assessment of the educational standards being attained and whether this is the correct level of achievement for the pupils.

oFSTED reports now have a section saying what the school needs to do to improve. What areas did the inspectos highlight?

Thanks everyone for the posts, it's all very helpful. I will definitely try to get the Year2 sats results from the school.

The Ofsted report is a bit odd now I read it again, as there is a real discrepancy between the words - which are mostly positive and highlight only three things - and the rating, which is a Satisfactory with a few bits of Good. The three areas are: better provision for more able students, improve marking and assessment so that students know where they are, develop the role of subject leaders.

What I am trying to say about the school though (and may not be able to express without giving away some very identifiable details) is that they tend to do the absolute bare minimum necessary, and then not deliver that very well.

For example, I posted on here a few weeks ago about the frequency of book changing in reception, to get a sense of what other schools did, and it mostly ranged from twice weekly to daily. Ours are supposed to be changed every week (which I can see isn't wrong in itself). But this doesn't happen. At some points we have gone two and a half weeks without any change. My DD notices this and is disappointed. DD is also supposed to have some separate provision for literacy; two things have been promised her, one happens intermittently (i.e. we were promised daily but actually happens twice a week on a good week) the other has only happened twice in one and a half terms. Again, she sees this and is disappointed. Actually, when I write that down, it's no wonder she's not really engaging with the school really.

An imaginary whole-school example (to avoid being identified) but similar to situations we have found ourselves in. There is not a visible anti-bullying policy, because the school has no prospectus and an out-of-date website which does not always work. All the other first schools in the area have a clear policy. Several parents have been in to complain about relatively low level bullying, but which is impacting on R and Yr1 pupils within school. Changes to supervision levels are promised, along with some circle time. This has not happened. The teachers say the situation is now improved, it perhaps has slightly but the underlying problems have not gone away.

It's this underlying attitude which bothers me most, that they will do the minimum, and then if challenged make promises of change but not follow them through. But I'm new to this school lark and really have no idea whether trying to make a change is realistic or not. I would raise it all at the school's parent forum; I did once get into the website and find that, apparently, there is one of these every half term. But it hasn't happened yet this year...

With apologies for giant essay.

If your child needs extra help with literacy which has been promised and isn't happening - you really need to change school.

Reading is too important to muck around with. You can go in and complain, and for a few weeks they'll do it every day - but the TA who delivers it won't be as well trained as in another school and the intervention they've offered is probably the wrong one.

I really have been here. Fighting the school wasted 3 valuable yeare of my DDs education - years I can't get back.

I would assume all schools are better for your child than what you're describing and move. Now.

It's pretty unusual for a child in the first term of reception to already be on a literacy intervention.

So it's really just a "feeling" you've got. Nothing wrong with that- but you can't take it to the Head!

The KS1 results should be on the LEA website.

However, an interesting thing to do would be got go to the office and ask to see a copy of the anti bullying policy. They have a statutory duty to have one ( and they must have hqd one to show OFSTED) so they ^should be able to let you see it there and then. Their reaction might be a useful indicator!

KS1 results not on DofE website, just says 'no data' and the LEA site doesn't seem to have anything of the sort - can't even find the school on there. I will ask the school next week

As for the situation in general, it's a bit more than a feeling; more a repeated and visible pattern of not sorting things out, not taking decisions, not following through, not fixing the website, not having a prospectus, always choosing the least demanding option. And there are failures I could substantiate with evidence.

Indigo, thank you for the thoughts and support. DD is actually getting extra tuition because she can read very well, at a level several years above her age, which is why it is always the lowest priority I suspect.

Having thought about it overnight, I think we need to do two things. One is to talk to the Head about the very specific things which have been promised and not delivered. That's relatively straightforward.

The other is to work out what long-term results we would like and whether it is realistic to expect them. And how much mental energy we actually want to expend on this. Then perhaps we'll know whether to get stuck in or just leave.