Anyone moved a child from Scottish school to Welsh/English one?

[gaelicsheep]

Were they really behind? My DS is in Scottish P1 but as he has a July birthday he will go into Welsh Year 1. ie it seems he'll be a year behind his peers. If anyone has experienced this, how did they find it? Did the school expect the child to be up to speed straight away? I'm very happy to work with DS, but we only have 7 weeks!

The Scottish system is generally ahead of the English/Welsh system. The children ate on average 6 months younger. Standard Grades are harder than GCSEs and they sit uni entry exams (highers) when 16/17 not 17/18. Much better system IMO.

Perhaps we only get the strugglers

CharlotteP,

The 'end of secondary' exams come earlier for Scottish children BUT at the other end of the system they start 6 months later than their English / Welsh counterparts (March rather than September cutoff, with many children around the deadline deferred so in fact often more than 6 months later). Essentially, Scottish children have one less full year in school, although they have had a year in nursery as the norm for longer than English schools [nowadays very few children come into school in any of the 3 countries with no nursery / pre-school experience, but in the past Scotland was ahead in that department].

This means that at the beginning of schooling, Scoittish children (depending on their birth dates) may be slightly 'behind' their English / Welsh counterparts, while at the end of their schooling they may be slightly 'ahead' (though as more and more children, especially if destined for universities outside Scotland, now stay on for Advanced Highers the idea of 'highers' being the end of school exams is eroding, which brings the leaving ages back in line give or take 6 months).

Again, in the past the Scottish system was more 'didactic' with less learning through play in the early years than in England and much more formal 'learning from textbooks'. However, the new Curriculum for Excellence has reversed that difference, with Wales taking that even further with a play-based curriculum for the whole of KS1.

Also worth saying that, at least in the recent past, highers were only a university entrance exam for Scottish universities - and only for the beginning of 4 year courses. Essentially a year at school was 'traded' for an extra year at university. Scottish students entering English universities typically needed at least some Advanced Highers. The 16 - 20 year olds I know in Scotland, who may attend either scottish universities for 3 year degrees or English universities, are all doing / have done a mix of Advanced Highers, A levels and 'crash' extra highers in additional subjects.

It's a relatively recent thing that English universities insist on advanced highers (not that I'm young enough to have even been offered 'advanced highers'). I suspect they didn't know what CSYSs were, or why they might have been more appropriate. I was given offers for good english unis straight from 5th year with only highers. I was only 16 when I started uni (and, in hindsight, I'm very glad that I stayed in Scotland).

DS1 definitely went from P3 to Y3. It wasn't great and everything would have been better if he'd gone into Y2. The system doesn't offer that kind of flexibility though.

Argh! my P3 has gone into my Y2 class!!!

But with a September birthday, they should be in a Y2 class. If they had an August birthday, they'd go into Y3.

Poor little thing should be in Y1 where she'd be happier

OMG my head hurts after all that. Thanks everyone! DS would potentially be going into a composite Y1/Y2 class, so that means he'll be 5 with most of his peers 6 and 7 AND further ahead to boot. It doesn't help that I don't rate the school he's currently attending at all and I feel like he's learned very little in two terms of being there. I also feel he started school too late here so in a way it will be going back to how I'd rather it had been, but I don't want him to be discouraged at first - although I know he's perfectly capable of catching up given the chance.

However I am worried about what teacherwith2kids said about Wales taking learning through play even further than the Scots. I make no secret on here of what I think of the Scottish education system - god forbid it's even worse in Wales. Although looking at the curriculum at least I may have a chance of knowing what he should be learning at any particular stage.

Question for English primary teachers, is there any flexibility with regard to such a move? If a child moves into a Scottish school it is quite normal for them to be put into a year group that they are slightly too old or young for if that suits them educationally. It happens quite often at the secondary school where I teach.

It is possible we may move to England at some point and all my children would go from middle of Scottish year group to youngest in English year group, with one less year of education so far. Would they have to go into their age appropriate year group or might some schools let them go into the year below?

It would be very unusual for a child to be educated out of year group unless they had significant SEN. There are a few LEAs around the country where it is possible but most are reluctant.

i would agree with Mrz. We currently have a child with very significant SEN (all professionals agree should be in a special school but parents absolutely opposed) who is taught in the year group below. We also enquired about the possibility for a child working 4 years below their chronological age with slightly less severe SEN, but were advised that the LEA would not support it. In particular, they would have forced the child to 'jump back' to their correct year on transfer to middle / secondary school, which would have undone any possible good of being kept back temporarily.

For a child simply moving from Scotland to England, I can't see it being allowed, unless the move was extremely short-term.

Thanks mrz, that's what I thought. Do you have any idea which LEA might consider it, even if reluctantly?

mrz Sorry, just come back to this. I'm talking about going from Scotland to England.

Having done both English and Scottish primary school systems, I think the Scottish primary system is better. It was certainly very good for my children.

My pupil has moved from Scotland to England and I was hoping after reading your post that she was in the wrong year group Almostfifty but it seems not.

I really do think it depends on the school, same as anywhere.

We were lucky to move to an area where the village school is outstanding. They're used to children moving around and do everything possible to make sure the children are kept at a level they're used to.

Almost50, It depends on the child at least as much as the school.

The child I described earlier - or perhaps the new arrival in my class from a neighbouring school - would, to work at 'the level they are used to', be placed in Reception, or maybe Nursery, despite being the right age for Year 3. The English system doesn't work like that. Teachers differentiate work all the time to cater for a wide range of abilities.

Almostfifty - that's interesting. I'm curious whether that was a few year's ago as things seem to have changed quite a bit since CfE, which no one will ever be able to persuade me is a good thing in a less than excellent school.

Thanks for asking about the year group thing BeatriceQuimby. This has crossed my mind too. I don't know which would be the better option for DS really and it seems there won't be the choice anyway. He does get on well with older kids and is currently in a mixed P1/P2 class so hopefully it will be OK. The problem is the school he's likely to go to has a mixed Year 1/Year 2 so he will be nearly 2 years younger than the older children. I don't think I'm too concerned about him academically as I think he'll catch up just fine. I've started doing stuff with him at home to try and get him that bit further ahead and he's doing very well. I'll discuss with his new school too of course. But the age/social thing is a whole other issue and it does worry me, especially since he is very small for his age as it is.

Like teacherwith2kids my new arrival would need to be placed in reception based on her level despite being the oldest in Y2

The system in Scotland is geared to the individual. The old system was to use 'levels' whereby when a child was ready, he/she would be tested to confirm they'd finished that level. Not the same as SATs, they took it when ready, not at a set time in that year.

Now, as regards CfE, it's passed my children by somewhat, as they've all started the exam system and missed out on this. However, having been through the discussions from the start (I'm on the Parent Council) I know our school is totally geared up for it and hit the ground running when it started.

It will be interesting to see how things go once the system reached S4.

Anyone know the position in Wales? I'll have to ask I suppose.

whereas the English system assesses the level of the child and when they complete level 1 they move onto level 2 then onto level 3

Ah, but do SATs not play a part in this anymore? I know when my son did them, it was a big trauma if the child didn't get at least level 2 at 7. Up here, there was no set date for the tests.

It's been a few years since I was in England, so I'm not up to speed on it mrz. Just saying how it was when we were in the system.

SATs are a snap shot of where a child is in the levels at certain points but ongoing teacher assessment is the level reported in KS1 and for writing and science in KS2 with both test and teacher levels reported for maths and reading

As a Y2 teacher I can use the tests at any point