Year 3 maths: does it matter that DD still counts on her fingers?

[Iamnotminterested]

Just doing a bit of maths with DD - her idea, before anyone shouts at me for making her do work during the holidays - and I noticed that she still uses her fingers a lot to work out answers, eg. If I asked her what 24-17 is she automatically puts her fingers up to work it out, despite the fact that she is very good a tnumber bonds bonds so would know that it's 3 up to 20, then 4 the other side kind of thing. The thing is she is always accurate with her answers - the example I have given is just for demonstration - so does it really matter at this age??

Same thing here with Y3 DS. I've been patiently waiting for him to drop the habit and now wondering if he ever will ... like your DD he is generally accurate and pretty quick - I console myself with the thought that it is good that he can work it out, but worry it will slow him down as he moves up the school.

Mine is year 10 and still does it

I'm thirty with a level A grade and I still do it!!

A-level A grade that should be.

Thanks for the responses. A friend of a friend said that a child could not get a level 3 in KS1 if they use their fingers to count, which IME isn't true but an odd idea. I must admit that I have ALWAYS struggled with adding a number onto another number ending in 6 or 7, I really have to think "How many before 10?", and I have to work days and weeks out on my fingers, despite also having "A" level maths Perhaps it's a bit of a family trait?

I think the 'level 3 not given if fingers used' thing was the old way of assessing ks1 maths, from many years ago. If the teacher saw the child using fingers to work anything out they were not allowed to award level 3. It is not the case any more. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong - am not KS1.) Was a daft rule - let's face it, most of the population wouldn't be level 3 if fingers weren't allowed!

My Y3 DS definitely doesn't use his fingers.

Only my Y4 DD does. And she's not very good at school maths.

Sure, she's progressing through the levels, but if I didn't have bigger concerns I'd be concerned about her maths......

I think a lot bit of extra practice wouldn't go amiss.

I told my Y4 class to use their fingers if they wanted to. They're right there for them to use in every maths test they'll ever have to do and it helps then get the right answer who cares?

But extra practice at what, precisely, Indigobell? She can work out the type of question posted here recently, the David eats half of his sweets and then is given 16 more..etc pretty well, is great at fractions, angles, decimals, word problems, quite a lot of stuff that a lot of year 3's probably couldn't do. But she uses her fingers for basic addition or subtraction; Is she therefore going to be labelled as "not good at maths?"

I too tell my class to use their fingers if they need to-they were given 10 fingers for reason!

Practice at working out the answers at speed

Use a precision teaching type method, where you try and get as many answers as you can in one minute.

Then you try to beat your personal best.

You can't be fast and use your fingers.

She won't be labelled not good at maths. (Schools don't label, remember) She may or may not be fine. But it'll take her more effort than it would if she just knew the answers instantly. And therefore make her life just a tad harder than it needs to be.

I'm the same as NickNacks. I also got a grade A at A Level maths and count on my fingers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this whatsoever!

For what it's worth, my uncle, who's a maths teacher and whose class got a record number of A grades at A level last year, says there is nothing wrong with counting on fingers - why not do it if it helps? Our fingers are an in-built aid to calculation - we might as well make the most of them!

I'm 33, got an A in A level maths 16yrs ago and I still count on my fingers so I don't think it's necessarily a problem

It's the same as the difference between touch typing and two finger typing.

They both get the job done, but two finger typing is not only slower - it requires more brain power. So instead of thinking about what to write, you have to think how to type.

Knowing your times tables facts instantly,and how to add up instantly, frees your brain up so you can actually think about what you're trying to calculate, rather than how to add up.

Your working memory is very limited.

I'm, well, I won't say how old I am! But I still count on my fingers.

Iamnotinterested - she'll be fine. It's probably just her security blanket! Better to slow down a fraction and double check with fingers, than to be over-confident and make daft mistakes!

Indigo - she is instant with X tables, fab, but just uses her fingers for counting - albeit quickly!! I get where you are coming from with the idea of not wasting time on step a when you should be moving on to steps b and c - see fig. 1, DD1!!

Imnotacelebrity - Thanks. She is thorough with her methods.

Hi Iamnotinterested

My DD2 (Y2) still uses fingers and DD1 (Y4) has fully dropped the habit.

We did two things. We used tallies on paper to count up or down as needed and we also used game pieces (connect 4/ checkers/ etc...) to help counting out.

To be honest I think if it is working then it can't be 'wrong' - but it sounds like the situation I am in with DD2 - the next step is to teach doing this in her head.

We also reviewed all number bonds from individual numbers 5 and above. I say this because for DD2 they clearly have laboured number bonds for 10 at school, but she doesn't seem to be able to recall all the possible ways to make 8 or 9. We are learning this by making it a race with her sister and father. So I deal a card - say 9 and then they have to come up with all 9 ways (excluding 0 + 9 and 9 + 0). The first to finish wins. We make it interesting with the first to finish gets a sweet, etc...

The practice seems to help with memorizing these various bonds for numbers 5 - 9 - in the way practicing times tables did. And gradually fingers counting seems to drop off.

oh - forgot to say we also used a laminated 100 number square for counting on or counting back as well. The school provided this - but you can print one out at home from here www.communication4all.co.uk/Classroom%20Basics/100%20Square%20Large.pdf

sorry - this is the normal A4 size: www.communication4all.co.uk/Numeracy/My%20100%20square.pdf

Obviously instant recall is the quickest method fingers, counters, number lines , number squares are tools but we encourage our children learn a limited number of facts which really speed up their calculations.

Using fingers is very useful and I often use mine even now at the age of 45 and with many years maths teaching behind me.

What I will say is that it is better to use just one hand so that you are not continuously putting down and picking up the pen and tapping fingers agains the table is better than pointing at them with the other hand.

Using fingers is a very practical experience and can help immensely with understanding maths so I never discourage it

@ monstiebags; as I said earlier, I still use fingers to count on occasion, despite A level maths. So it can't be that bad? I am an able mathematician...who just happens to count on her fingers!