split year group issues

[sloppyjoe]

Do you think it makes any difference to the learning of a child whether they are in a y6/5 class, or a y5/4/3 class???
Our school splits by age, not ability, and I think it does make a difference to a what a child aspires to. Isn't it better that the Y5 children working with Y6's have something to aim towards, rather than being with Y4 and 3 kids????
Or am I being too pushy??

well then you could say that the children in yr6 shouldn't be in with yr 5 too as they have nothing to aim for!?

i think if it's working for the school then it's fine.
ds1 goes to a montessori school and they always group ages together, the youngers ones learn from the older ones, and the older ones learn to help and look after the younger ones... it works well

hmmm. fair point. I suppose I get jealous to see other kids "moving up' when mine are 'kept down'. I don't enjoy seeing other y5 kids learning say, algebra (?) when mine is still doing 5 times tables again. ("it won't hurt him to cover it again").

Do you mean kids in other schools moving up as a year group, OP? Or the older ones in your DC's year moving up because they are the older ones?

If it's the latter then that would seriously piss me off and surely isn't right or fair; My DC's school have a couple of mixed year groups, not all, and the children are streamed according to ability, not age.

In the same school!!!! i.e. the kids my dc started with in reception.

My kid somehow turned out bright and is working alongside the younger ones and I have to watch on as other (dare I say) less bright ones get pushed along onto new things.
Parents evening after half will be, erm.....interesting.

I wouldn't be happy about a very able yr5 being taught alongside a struggling yr3 child. But are you sure that's how it's done? I assume that the yr5 would be on a different table doing different work? The schools sat results would be poor if they were giving yr5 yr3 work.

Having said that, I would be upset if my friends moved up to the year5/6 class and I was left with 7 year olds.

sloppyjoe That sounds very unfair and extremely frustrating for you and your DS.

My ds's year was split P3/4 and P4/5 as one of the younger P4's he went into the 3/4 class. For the first time he was now one of the older ones in the class and given responsibilities and tasks he would not have normally faced. He came on in leaps and bounds and it did wonders for his confidence.

In theory a Y5 in a mixed Y3/4/5 class should be learning exactly the same things as a Y5 in a mixed Y5/6 class. If your child isn't then it's down to the teacher not the mix.

tbh, I don't know exactly how it works. It's happened before in other years - 2 and 3 and 5 are split years. I've never been convinced that it works out fairly.
I think I need to think carefully what I ask and how i ask it at parents evening.

How is it possible to teach 3 year groups in one class anyway?

My children had it from Y1-Y6. I never liked it but they never saw it as a problem. If they are bright and young for the year, the do well, then they tread water when they are in teh old part of the year. Can work if it's well organised though.

It really depends how it works and how much they can differentiate - but I would have concerns about teaching resources being spread too thinly over a 3-year class with one teacher. Also the possible effects of not having other children working at the same level, as I think similar-ability peer groups are very useful.

My DCs were in a purposely multi-age school (not in the UK) which had 3-year age spreads in each class, and that mostly worked very well, but they were small classes (20 or so) with two full-time teachers, so very easy to differentiate in very small groups. Even so, in the final year of 3 it was not ideal for DS as he was basically in a group of 1 for English and Maths as he was working at a level well ahead of anyone else in the class, and I think that was not ideal as it is good to have at least one other child to work with.

I was put off one possible school for DS when we moved back to the UK, as they had split yr 3/4 and 4/5 classes with the division based purely on birth date, so yr 4 DS being August born would have gone into the yr 3/4 class, but in terms of ability would have been more at the upper end of the yr5 class. I found another school for him.

Quite easy to teach 3 year groups in one class. In a single year group there will normally be a huge spread of abilities so teachers plan to meet every child's needs. It is exactly the same in a mixed age class.
My friend teaches in a small school and has 4-11 year olds in the same class all working at their own level.

mrz - I'm genuinly interested to understand how this can work. Surely the different curriculums for 3 year groups make teaching say maths very different. I actually don't know how the curriculum differs between years. Maybe I should research before I go complaining. I hope his teacher is on the case. She is newly qualified, so hopefully she is up to date with all possible resources and expectations.

nso.archive.teachfind.com/node/20206?uc=force_uj

Differentiation and mixed-age teaching

The blocks and units are structured to support mixed-age teaching. The starting point is planning for age-related expectations. Taking Year 3 Block A Unit 1 as the starting point, it is possible to use the 'Related links' section to navigate to Year 2 Block A Unit 1 and Year 4 Block A Unit 1 to look at the related unit in the previous year and next year. This might be particularly useful when looking for assessment prompts and linked resources.

unfortunately a NQT is unlikely to have had any experience of mixed age teaching but she should have a mentor in the school who can support her in planning effectively to meet a range of needs.

It depends entirely on the teacher. DD went to a small village school with split year groups. As she has a July birthday she always stayed down when the older ones went up. There was only one teacher in her school that seemed to be unable to give children in different years the appropriate work (years 3/4), but DD soon caught up. She achieved level 5s in her KS2 SATS and is in the top set for everything at high school.

As I just said on another thread research seems to show that children in lower sets don't do as well, even when the same ability. So by being with the younger ones I would say its less likely that a child will be stretched.However, I can see that so much is dependent on the teacher. At my dd2 's school (not split set) the fact that most reading was done in groups meant that she was in a group continually with weaker readers as it was not practical to do otherwise. You might find that at your school teachers might make much more effort.
DD1 was in a split yr1/2 when she was in yr 1. It undoubtedly pulled her on as she saw the sort of written work yr 2's did and was competitive. There were more teaching groups available to move her into as well. This said it was definitely less good for her socially. The yr 2's knew they were older really and my dd found that year hard socially.
It is very teacher dependent.

however camicaze this isn't setting

the thing that is worrying me now is that round here lots of kids compete for private school places during Y6. (local comp very rough). He will be in direct competition with the other current Y5's in the class above him now. Will he have chance to catch up (if he is behind) before the entrance tests I wonder.
I really hope his teacher is on the ball.
I am now even considering a tutor. I would never have thought in a million years I would be doing that.

Don't think of them being in the class "above" think of them being in a parallel y5 group

I'm panicking now aren't I??!!!
SO long as he does the same stuff by the end of the year it doesn't matter does it. I shall have that as my mantra.

When DS1 was at a tiny village primary school (Yr 7 now) the classes were arranged

R/Y1
Y2/Y3/younger half of Y4
older half of Y4/Y5/Y6

However the year 4's that were split regrouped for numeracy and literacy and all lessons were adjusted to suit the ability of the child any way.

DS1 was in the younger Y4 group but had no problems being stretched and was definately not disadvantged by it (looking at levels, SATS results etc)

There have been a couple of changes this year so classes are now arranged
R
Y1/Y2
Y3/Y4
Y5/Y6

My DCs are at a small village school. R/Y1, Y2/Y3, Y4/Y5/Y6.

Differentiation works and children are grouped with others as appropriate (even if not in same class). Can't be too bad - I think they got 80% L5 in maths and 90% in literacy last year.

Sorry didn't read OP carefully. She says her school splits by age not ability. My dd1's school split by ability when they reached yr3 hence my comment about setting.
For my dd1 all yr 1 and 2 were mixed - so not setting. However, it did mean my dd got the chance to go into yr 2 groups to learn, which as I said really helped her writing but wasn't so good for her socially.