Is it time to move the dcs to a private school?

[popgoestheweezel]

Dd is in yr 3 and ds in yr 1.
Dd has had a lot of confidence problems since starting yr 3, tummy aches most school nights and mornings, reluctance to go into school on her own, worries that she is 'struggling' with her work (although there is no evidence of this) but this has improved since Christmas.
Ds has always had 'problems' at school and he is being investigated for special needs. School haven't been at all supportive- all through reception they said he had problems (hurting other children, not following instructions, not able to sit still).
Last year the school's Ofsted inspection was only just satisfactory (previously had been almost outstanding) and subsequently the head resigned. In September a new head started and he has started to make a LOT of long overdue changes but I'm wondering if we can wait for these to fully take effect.
Since November Ds has been having extra help in a social communication group alongside 3 of his closest friends mainly because they were frequently falling out and hurting each other. However, over the last few weeks their behaviour has been deteriorating, so much so that there is a physical incident (kicking, biting, scratching- sometimes drawing blood) involving some or all of these 4 boys every day for the last two weeks. Clearly the social communication group is not working! I went in to see the head of KS1 to discuss it and she said that they have plans for clubs (arts & crafts etc) for lunchtimes to help.
Today we have a letter telling us that one of ds' class teachers (a job share) has resigned due to ill health. I am positive that it is stress related. I am also thinking that maybe it's related to the deterioration in their behaviour too. Their plan now is to get a supply in to cover until easter then another teacher currently teaching yr 2 will take over.
The question is, will this be a huge amount of upheaval from now until the end of the year? A job share is already unsatisfactory (IMO) because of the lack of consistency and this will only get much much worse if they change teachers now and then again after easter.
Maybe it is time to move them both. There is a good little private school in the next village. They have no more than 12 to a class, get very good ofsted and particularly importantly (for ds) their psed is outstanding. But, do i make the move and lose all the friends they have on their doorstep?

If you decide to move, you will have to ask detailed questions of all possible new schools about exactly what support they offer, and whether they have experience of teaching and helping the development of children with similar.

You need to look round all possible schools, from both sectors, and work out which are likely to be the best fit for both DCs.

And my sympathies - I have also had a DC in a KS1 class with a jobshare which did not work well. It was one of my most frustrating times with school; and my friend (who had a child with additional needs) was tearing her hair out.

Sorry, posted in something of a hurry before.

I think that you need to take a long look at your DS. Do you think that it is only in this particular peer group that he shows this type of behaviour? Is he different in other environments - e.g., at home, at Beavers, at football, in the park with other friends? Is he entirely different during the school holidays? Or is his behaviour consistent(ish) in all environments?

The thing is, if you move your DS to the private school, you will change his peer group and his environment - and if it is only in his current context that his behaviour is a concern, then you are right in thinking that it could be a positive move.

However, if his behaviour is consistent in all environments, then the move is unlikely to solve the problem, and private schools are very intolerant of behavioural difficulties as it impacts on their fee earning potential. You would be better off moving to another state school where behaviour management may be better but also suitable interventions would be available.

Also, you do not say whether the SEN the school is investigating is linked to his behaviour, or whether it is something separate? I would be very nervous about sending a child with any degree of SEN to a private school UNLESS this is a known specialism of the school. Again, private schools rely on their 'output results' to pull in future punters and they are intolerant of those who pull the averages down.

I suppose what I'm saying is, ONLY make this particular move IF your DS shows this behaviour only in school and only in the context of a particular peer group and if his SEN is very minor or you think only investigated because of his current behaviour (e.g. my DS was on the SEN register as a selective mute.. which was school induced. He moved school, mutism stopped). Otherwise, a move to another state school would be likely to have a more positive impact.

Established jobshares in primary school, by the way, can be extremely positive, and children often thrive through having two teachers with slightly different 'slants'. However, I can understand that a hastily-arranged 'forced marriage' type of jobshare under difficult conditions for the school may be less positive. I think tbh that the main concern is not the jobshare per se, it is the level of change and disruption to the class through several changes of staffing during a year.

"Isn't that one of the many reasons you like private? Because you don't have kids with challenging behaviour there?"

Well, I'm not aware of children who throw chairs at our school but there are children with special educational needs i.e. need extra assistance. I can't imagine many schools, state or private, can cater for extreme disruptive behaviour.

someone has to.

Yes, I know this, but hand on heart, would you want your child's education disrupted by disruptive children or poor teaching etc etc? Enough said.

Sue - hand on heart I'm very glad that school continue to teach my child even when he has challenging behaviour.

I'm really, really, really not sure what you think should happen to kids like my son.

All state schools teach kids with challenging behaviour.

Hand on heart I can say I'm very glad my kids don't go to a private school.

I'm sure you are glad - as would I if I had a child with challenging behaviour.

But my child has been on the receiving end of children with challenging behaviour (at nursery) and you become much less accommodating then.

Hi, it really doesn't sound as if your DS is getting the help he needs and a job share is not ideal. Has he had any kind of assessment/been seen by an educational psychologist yet, or are you still waiting? Is there a teaching assistant, or other support in his class? Does he show the same kind of behaviour at home or to his sister? Does your doctor know what is going on, can he offer you any positive suggestions? It is often some much easier for someone 'outside' the situation to advise.
I would certainly be thinking of moving him elsewhere, but visit the schools while they are working and talk to the other parents.
Private schools are expensive and of course you can be asked to remove your child far more easily from them than from a state school.
Have your DD's tummy problems started since your son started school? Could this be her trying to attract your attention? I would think that you have to spend a lot of time on your son.
You have got your hands full, do encourage your daughter to bring her friends to play if you can
Hope this helps a little

'Hand on heart I can say I'm very glad my kids don't go to a private school'

Oh dear, don't take the thread down the state school v private school line as that's been done to death sooo many times! It's about the right school for OP's children, whatever that is, whether state or private, and it's hard to generalise as it very much depends upon the individual school.

sue,

I am sure that you don't mean to be offensive... but your post could be read as saying 'yes I am sure that a state school is good enough for YOUR child, because they have challenging behaviour, but MY child is SO precious that they have to be protected in a nice private school'....

Every child is precious to their parents. Why is yours more precious because an accident of birth means that he does not present with challenging behaviour, while a child with ASD may?

The OP has said that their child is showing challenging behaviour, and has asked whether a private school would be good for him. Your post shows EXACTLY why parental attitudes and an eye for the profit motive mean that a good, inclusive state school would be a better option for such a child than a private school.

If you read my earlier posts, I actually SUGGESTED that OP consider private school due to smaller class sizes etc.

The thread has been taken off course somewhat by others references to throwing chairs etc and lets be honest, who wants their child going through that whether they pay for education or not?

'I am sure that you don't mean to be offensive... but your post could be read as saying 'yes I am sure that a state school is good enough for YOUR child, because they have challenging behaviour, but MY child is SO precious that they have to be protected in a nice private school'.... '

Which post are you referring to? Can't see it myself.

"I'm sure you are glad - as would I if I had a child with challenging behaviour.

But my child has been on the receiving end of children with challenging behaviour (at nursery) and you become much less accommodating then."

is the post I was referring to.

My 'on the spectrum' DS was, in his first school, capable of challenging behaviour. He was also on the receiving end of some appalling bullying. He moved school [still within state sector] and shows exemplary behaviour and is no longer bullied. Why? Because his school has met children like him before and know how to deal with him - and have taught him to deal with others.

Yes, and that had nothing to do with my decision to send him to private school - for God's sakes, I had no idea who would be in DS's class with him.

Sorry, I think that some people just have an issue with private school for whatever reason and judge those who send their children there.

It just seems unhelpful, on a thread started by an OP with a child with challenging behaviour, to make it so clear that you want your child separated from such children..... to the extent that you make it clear that what is good enough for a child with challenging behaviour is NOT good enough for your own child.

What I was trying to say in my post about my son was that the same child can both display and be the victim of challenging behaviour. Should they be removed from it? Be in a school capable of managing it without having to get a child to leave? Or be left there because 'your parents should be glad that a school will take even a child with challenging behaviour'??

I have to say I have taught children in mainstream state schools who were known chair throwers.

However, that was not all they were. One in particular was a witty, clever, socialble person who just got so frustrated.

I am proud to have taught him.

If you took the time to read my posts, you will see that they were largely in response to a poster who was referring to throwing chairs etc, and I had responded with what I thought were helpful posts for OP.

Anyway, frankly, I'm getting bored with the whole state school v private school debate so over and out.

I currently teach a known 'strangler'...or rather a reformed strangler! He is also a delightful, imaginative child who is brilliant at role play and storytelling. When younger, he found a lot of the school curriculum challenging and that made him very frustrated - and he also has a real 'thing' about other people in his personal space.

However, with appropriate interventions to address the academic issues, and careful social education both for him and for others, he's now flying. I do know that many parents wanted him 'separated' further down the school, but he's now a fully-integrated and valued member of the class who has lots of friends, and we're really proud of him.

Thanks MC, that's a really lovely thing to say.

Like Teachers DS my DS had challenging behaviour at his old school, and doesn't at his new school.

Its my pleasure...seriously.

I think the problem with pigeon holes like this is that they come to represent the whole child. Its just not that simple, is it.

Isn't this thread actually about the fact that the OPs current school isn't providing for any of the 'challenging' children , including her own, and that her DD is also miserable. I too am beginning to question whether my DCs school is right for similar reasons of school being less and less able to manage behaviour and staff leaving left right and centre because they can't cope with the lack of support from the head. I too am considering 'alternatives' and it seems to me that if the OP had opened this without mentioning the alternative was private then there might be a more balanced response.
IMHO this school appears to be bad and getting worse and I think it's an excellent idea to explore alternatives, whatever they are for the OP.
OP in answer to you I think it's worth looking at all the alternatives and see what is likely to suit your DC the most, you can be sure to help them keep in touch with their friends by inviting them round after school just as you do at the moment and if they are on the doorstep they still will be - so long of course they haven't got mums who are MNers who will no longer allow their DC to fraternise now your DC are 'independent'

Clutteredup, I think that is a very fair comment. I do think that the OP has to look for an alternative school, as the current one does not seem to be working out for either of her children.

In her position I would research state alternatives as well as private ones to find the option that would fit her children best. I can understand the impulse that says 'this state school isn't working, I will have to go private', but IME there is a vast gulf between different state schools - even those which appear on paper to be the same. DS went from being a bullied selective mute with behavioural issues in Ofsted 'Good' School A [head said 'unlikely ever to thrive in mainstream school] to a popular, chatty child with exemplary behaviour in Ofsted 'Good' School B.