Please come reassure me re EYFS Points

[WannabeNigella]

Hi,
Had parents evening last night and was given DS scores for the Early Learning Goals. He isn't 5 until March and is in Reception.
Can anyone give me any info on these scores? I know they can score between 1-9 and that they don't necessarily have to do them in order but I was a bit concerned that a couple of his scores have actually gone down compared to what he was scored at the Day Nursery he attended (his key worker there was actually a qualified Primary School Teacher too).
What score is actually expected of them on average by the time they complete reception?
Anything else I should know about?
Thanks

IME the 'missing' scores are often things that the teacher hasn't seen them do rather than things they can't do.

And the most important thing is that these scores correlate with nothing. So wait until year 1 before starting to stress about scores :)

I'm sure you;re right about not stressing Sarky. Just that he has gone from being in the top part of his class abilities wise (Told by his teacher last parents eve) and now it would seem he is average according to the scores I've been given. Just concerned as to how/why this has happened.

If I'd have realised last night then I would have queried it then but the slot time goes so quickly and I hadn't really got my head around it then.

Please do not stress about EYFS. I did and for nothing. Just to reassure you, my ds came out pretty average on his EYFS scores, I worried he wasn't doing well etc. As soon as he went into year 1 he went into top groups and is doing extremely well. I think it may be because even though your dc can do something the teacher has to witness them doing it 3 times before they can be scored for it. You know your ds is doing well so have faith in that, not in the EYFS.

Sometimes what someone sees at Nursery is not evidenced at Reception. Its a big change for children to go from a smaller class to working full day with more children.
My DS was the reverse. He went from a private nursery - with excellent staff - who gave him very low levels (he is a summer holiday baby - so will leave reception still as a 4 year old!) His MS primary is also excellent - and the staff soon realised that half the time, he just couldn't be bothered in answering, and showing them what he did know. So they pushed a little and realised he knew far more than he had let on.
So there are lots of variables as to why levels can change. I have also heard that some schools prefer to be under realistic on achievement so that when yr2 SATs results come, it shows what an excellent level of improvement has been made at the school

I can never understand why those EYFS scores are viewed as meaningful. My dd2's at the end of reception were just bizzare. Teachers interpret the guidelines on how much the evidence for them has to be child led, in quite different ways. I was chatting to a friend that was dd2's nursery teacher the other day about it and she was saying that she could have pretty much ticked boxes at the end of nursery that the school didn't tick a year later.
For example, my dd2 didn't get the 'reads fluently' box ticked. Not because she couldn't read very well (she could), or because she had problems comprehending or because she didn't read smoothly. All that was good. It was the fact she had never taken herself off to the book corner at a time when the teacher was present and picked a book and read it out loud of her own volition. DD1 did get that box as her teacher was a a bit more rational. In fact dd2 was a better reader by every measure.
I would ask the teacher what they felt your child's strengths and weaknesses were and not give monkeys about the scores.

hi I teach reception

scores 1-3 generally relate to nursery/ beginning of reception level
scores 4-8 can only be achieved if 1-3 in that area has been achieved, most cildren will end up in this range, the average being 6
9 - can only be given when 1-8 has been achieved in an area, classed as over and above what is expected

the profile should technically only be done at the end of reception to inform Year one teacher, but many people use it throughout reception to monitor progress (myself included)

it is done totally on teachers judgements which is where descrepencies can come in, 80% of judgements have to be done on child inititated play and the other 20% can be done with the teacher leading activities

was there a particular score you were concerned about?

I was chatting to a friend that was dd2's nursery teacher the other day about it and she was saying that she could have pretty much ticked boxes at the end of nursery that the school didn't tick a year later.

yes I've received lots of those from nurseries my best was the three year old who according to her nursery had already achieved every single profile point I often find nurseries award points when the child has been supported to do things rather than being able to do it completely independently.
Nurseries should not even be using the profile it is intended for the end of reception

My dd2 went to two different nurseries in her pre-school year and the boxes ticked at the end were so varied. Beyond a general sense that she was doing fine and making a nice item for the memory box, they weren't meaningful documents.
This said, both lots of nursery teachers were smashing and knew my dd really well. It was just this evidence thing. I think possiblyit would be easier to convict Abu Qatada than prove an EYFS level...

I agree there is lack of consensus about what the profile points actually mean even with moderation and it can only get worse when the "slimmed down" version is introduced.

Ash, yeah I'm concerned about a few to be honest. Was told in Oct he was in top part of class (15 in reception)

For Personal, Social and Emotional Development and Knowledge and Understanding of the world he has been scored 3 and for physical development and creative development he has been scored a 2!

I have read up what they need to show for each of the points and it is just ludicrous to suggest he should only have a 2 for physical development in particular.

I'm particularly concerned cause its quite possible they'll split the class at end of year and only half will go up and rest will stay in reception (school has 2 yrs in each class) if this was all he was capable of then I'd be fine with that but it's not the case but I'm not really going to know again now what they're scoring him until it'll be too late for me to do anything about this decision. He is a really bright 4 yr old who can't wait to do his homework and his reading etc is excellent although he has only been scored a 4 for literacy, which I could kind of think might be a reasonable score if it wasn't for me questioning all the others.

I'm so upset about it as it just seems crazy and unfair.

I had a meeting with DS's keyworker from pre-school last week to discuss his development and how he was doing. She showed me the EYFS sheets that they are supposed to work to. She said that they had to observe a child doing something 3 times and have evidence before they could fill out the sheet.

Mrz, it is my understanding that nurseries and pre-schools still have to follow the EYFS guidelines so they should be using that profile but it should be loosely based. She mentioned that the schools don't actually want to see any of their findings once they start in Reception. She seemed quite dismayed about this. But I actually think this is correct. The teacher needs to evaluate the child for themselves and not base anything on findings from the nursery/pre-school.

Having said that i received my DD's end of year report last July when she finished Reception and it didn't really tell me anything. Just lots of statements. There was no score attributed to it. I managed to find a document online that gave me the score (1 to 9) in all the areas that I could attribute to the statements on her report which made it much more meaningful. I can understand that scoring children at the end of Reception doesn't mean much, but it is obviously done. I was a bit annoyed that my child had been assessed to that degree and that the information wasn't fed back to me in a way that I could suitably measure it.

Wannabe: I would be worried by those too. Also if he is getting these scores in Reception why hasn't the teacher flagged this up to you? As someone else said levels 1 to 3 are usually attained at nursery/pre-school. What did the teacher actually say about your DS during the meeting? Did she express any concern?

He said that he could be easily distracted but that this was quite common in boys and that he wasn't overly concerned etc.

I spoke to him briefly after school tonight again and said I was concerned that the scores were so low and he was faily disparaging of the nursery scores, which I can understand, but just told me not to worry and he really didn't see it as a major problem. But another parent has had their scores tonight and our two boys have always been pretty much on a level playing field and he has had mostly 5's and a few 4's. I know I shouldn't compare as they can be progressing at different rates etc but these scores just aren't reflective of my son and not only am I really concerned that I've only just been alerted, although I know that's cause he will say he doesn't see it as a huge problem, but also due to this class split at the end of the year.

Wannabe: Okay, I know I have just posted saying that I was annoyed that I didn't get a score for my DD at the end of Reception. But I would say in your case I don't really see the point in the school giving out these scores at this time in the year. They are only half way through! They are meaningless. I would focus more on what the teacher had to say then fixate on the score. Honestly, a lot can change in 6 months. If the teacher isn't worried at this stage then I would trust that.

OP - listen to the advice that you have been given on here.

Do you really think I shouldn't worry yet even though it may mean he is kept back when class is split at the end of the year? If that's what he needed I'd be supportive of that but once that is done that will be it for the rest of his Primary Education.

Thanks for al the advice.

they are low scores especially the phyical as you say, i find most of my kids are achieving most of those points when they enter reception. Some points are easier to achieve than others. But as someone else said you have to trust the teacher if he is not worried about him. Perhaps you could ask for a review meeting at the end of next half term so you can monitor his progress without waiting till the end of the year. they do make huge progress as the year goes on .I have the score sheets in each childs learning journal which goes home every week so parents are always aware of where their child is. When you say they say they spilt the year group, dont feel he would be 'kept back'. He willl still be a ayear one and personally i think he would get the better deal in a more playbased classroom than a more formal y2 classroom (i assume half stays with rec , half with year 2). We had to do this one year because of numbers and we ensured the year one children were getting the same curriculum its just the classroom setting which is different.

At the end of Reception my 2 DC (in my opinion) were at a broadly similar stage with one or two exceptions. DD's EYFS has her as way above average (8s and 9s) whilst DS's had him as average and below average in some thing.
There is absolultely no way they differed that much in terms of what they actually had to do - simply that DD tended to do a variety of things (while DS stuck to 1 or 2 favourites) and was keen to please teacher.

By the end of Y2 (DD is now in Y1) I expect that their NC scores will be (more or less) identical.

What in retrospect I've realised is that the areas where DS scored lower - because he didn't display the "child led" bit are the ones that he disliked having to do in Y1 when the children don't get to choose so much - this certainly led to him struggling to fit into a more formal Y1, whereas more adaptable DD was straight in and settled. I think DS would actually have preferred a mixed YR/Y1 class so you should in no way consider this a negative.

Thanks so much all of you.

Ash, my friend did actually say this morning that if/when the group is split (You were right that some would stay in section and some in Y2 class) that if he was to stay back with her son, they are both late Spring babies, that they might actually enjoy it more and get a little more attention as they would be such a small group compared to the rest who would be with Y2. Which is true of course.

It's just so frustrating to think he has been scored incorrectly and even if I take the "Precious First Born" bit out of it he is at least a 4 on all of them.

Anyway, I really appreciate all the advice, thanks again.

Well I'm afraid your understanding is wrong Rollergirl the official guidance is that nurseries and pre schools should not be using the profile as it is intended for the end of the foundation stage (ie reception ) and for younger children they should assess using the developmental matters criteria.
Quite often the data from preschools and day nurseries is hugely inflated and schools and teachers are usually dismayed to discover parents have been given very misleading expectations.

Don't think of it as being kept back!

In the UK kids aren't kept back. He'll be in Y1 next year and Y2 the year after.

He'll be taught to read and write and add up.

It's just that half the kids his age will be with one teacher, and half with another.

There are loads of things in life you should worry about. This isn't one of them.

I'm a bit that you were told where he places in the class with his scored (top of the class) because this should not be a comparison thing at all, surely?? In our primary, we are never told how your Dc's are doing in relation to others because of the risk that this could foster the awful competitive parent thing at has been talked about on this site before. (not saying you are doing this at all!!)

Our school don't actually publish the scores in any formal report home, even at the end of the year. I think they get round it by writing the scores as the decriptors of what the child can do, rather than the number. I'm actually glad about this because I have always seen the scores as a useful teacher tool rather than informative to me in any way.

Having seen my (pfb...been there, got that stress badge) DD and now my DS go through reception I can see these numbers are less than useful to me. How they settle, how happy they are and how well they progress with the literacy and numeracy and important.

and Indigo is right... he can't be kept back.

Just another thing to think about - some schools are hesitant to mark a child too highly, as if a child is given 8s and 9s across the board, and then goes on to get Level 5s at the end of year 6, Ofsted see it as, so what, child was always 'clever', was bound to happen, kind of thing. But if a child is given 4s and 5s on the EYFS profile, and still goes on to get 5s in Year 6 it's seen as the school's marvellous teaching that the child has come on so well.

I have worked in schools that have purposely knocked the children's EYFS scores down a couple of numbers so their results at the end of Year 6 would look better. Even though the children had most definitely achieved the higher numbers in Reception.

Mrz is right (as usual!), however I think nursery staff should be taught how to use the profile. We have a child in nursery at the moment who should be in reception but whose parents wanted to keep her at nursery. We have to assess her according to the profile and report the results to the LA. It would work much better if we knew what we were doing!