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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Support given for children above average

29 replies

lou231179 · 07/02/2012 12:59

My DS is 5 and has been moved into Year 2 instead of year 1. He is doing really well at school and is achieving levels way above his age but it seems he is not being pushed at all.

My issue comes because of a school drop in session this morning where I was told he was lazy and his work was disappointing (even though he should be literacy level 1a-c and is achieving 2b-c). They said he does the minimum required to reach each level but nothing more.

I said I don't really know what to do and the teacher shrugged and said its probably just a boy thing! I was too shocked to really respond but now have come away and thought about it - obviously I can talked to my DS but should they not be pushing him to reach his full potential even though he is above average - surely they would do it the other way round if he wasn't achieving.

He is on the waiting list for a private school and unfortunately the boys section is full, I am sure it would help if he moved but unfortunately that isn't possible right now!

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redskyatnight · 07/02/2012 13:22

It actually sounds to me if the school is pushing him (e.g. putting him into Y2) and realising that he is capable of more or they would have just told you he was doing great and left it at that! Motivating a "lazy" child is hard ...

My own DS is probably similar. It manifests in things like - ask him to write a sentence using the word "beautiful". DS would write "I am beautiful". So he's done exactly what has been asked. Teacher might then say - perhaps he could add more to the sentence - he would write "I am beautiful sometimes". Perhaps if pushed somemore he might eventually end up at "I am beautiful sometimes but only when I am feeling happy" (sorry for rubbish sentence examples!) If asked to do the same thing DD would straight away write something along the lines of "I think flowers are very beautiful because of all the different colours."

The trick is getting them to go straight to the "better sentence" on their own!

Original poster

lou231179 · 07/02/2012 13:35

I guess it seems like they are pushing but I am not necessarily sure of their motives for moving him, in year R they had 2 teachers so split the class 15 and 17, going into year 1 there is only 1 teacher so they were left with an issue of a class over 30 - they then took a few of the brightest children and moved them into year 2 as there were only about 16 children in year 2!

I am probably worrying unnecessarily - your examples are so true to how my DS is!!! Thanks!

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mrz · 07/02/2012 16:46

I would try to find out why your son is being "lazy" is he finding the jump to Y2 too much?

Iamnotminterested · 07/02/2012 17:55

So is he in the year 2 class for 100% of the time? or just for certain subjects? IME going to the class up for certain subjects can work very well.

nmason · 07/02/2012 20:01

Some children don't like writing and prefer other things, even very able children. These are the ones who do the bare essentials and don't push themselves. It's like pulling teeth trying to motivate them. Sometimes it can also be a maturity thing too. The only thing I can recommend with writing is getting him to write about what he's interested in, (but that's not always practical) and going over the top with phrase when he does what you want him to. I personally think the school sounds like they are pushing him - from what you've said.

mrz · 07/02/2012 20:07

Especially children who have just left a play based curriculum and under government guidelines should continue working that way during the transition period ...

seeker · 07/02/2012 20:10

I wouldn't allow q child of mine to be moved into year 2- that sounds like qn insane thing to do! How can he possibly keep up socially- and why should he even be asked to try?

mrsshears · 07/02/2012 20:18

I also think your school sound like they are pushing him.
My dd's school were advised to put her up a year by an Ed psych as part of an IQ assessment and have ignored this and provided next to no extension/ differentiation,i would love to be in your position,don't knock it!

mrz · 07/02/2012 20:22

I agree with seeker ... madness!

MollieO · 07/02/2012 20:37

So its mixed year teaching rather than singling your ds out alone to be moved up? Sounds as if he is not that interested in school work. Yr 1 is a big step up from Reception - more work than play. Yr 2 even more so. Maybe he would be happier in the yr 1 class instead.

I really don't understand the need to push a 5 year old?

Iamnotminterested · 07/02/2012 20:59

Mrsshears It's a shame that your DD's school don't differentiate for her, perhaps they will in future; perhaps it's just not a very good school and not right for her? A lot I suppose is pot luck; we have been lucky.

MigratingCoconuts · 07/02/2012 21:14

I am also a bit about this, like mrz and seeker. Surely the school is challenging him as he is accessing the higher levels but....

What happens further up the schooling system, at year 7 or at year 11, 12, 13?

I think you might gain in terms of academic challenge but at the expense of developing age appropriate social skills, surely??

mrsshears · 07/02/2012 21:25

iamnotminterested it is very frustrating,i don't think it is the right school for dd but she has made lots of friends and alot of progress socially,that coupled with the fact we are having a new baby in a few months makes me think a move for her might not be a good thing to do at the present time,although having said that i dont think there would ever be an ideal time.

MollieO · 07/02/2012 21:28

Our local state schools do mixed year teaching. It is no big deal. The brightest go in the year above. It levels out in yr 3 when KS2 kicks in. If there is a plan to put your ds and the others who have been put in the yr 2 class up to year 3, so staying ahead, I would be concerned and think it is lazy teaching on the school's part.

muffinflop · 07/02/2012 21:31

But he hasn't been put up a year. He's in a mixed year one/two class, lots of schools do that. I'm assuming next year he'll be either in a full year two class or still in a mixed one/two class?

He sounds like a normal 5 year old boy to me

muffinflop · 07/02/2012 21:31

X posted mollieo I really need to learn to type faster!

ouryve · 07/02/2012 21:34

Is he level 2 all round, because that really doesn't sound all that exceptional - children achieving level 3 by Spring of year 2 are probably level 2 well into year 1 anyhow. DS1 was assessed early in year 1 as level 3b in maths, but I wouldn't have dreamed of putting him up a year.

I honestly don't see the point of putting him up a year if he's not way outside the normal range for his cohort, anyhow.

ouryve · 07/02/2012 21:37

OK - just read your later post that it's a mixed class. Sounds like even if he is one of the brighter kids in his natural year group, his maturity isn't necessarily in line.

Original poster

lou231179 · 07/02/2012 22:27

Its not really mixed year 1/2 teaching as such, not how it is in most schools, he is in year 2 almost 100% of the time ie for registration, assemblies, numeracy and literacy, they do some mixed work across the school but he is in year 2 for his core subjects. He is treated as a year 2 child along with 4 other year 1 children.

His main teacher spoke to me this evening as I expressed my concerns about what had been said this morning and said he exceeding the levels he needs to be so there is no need to worry, that he is more than keeping up with the Year 2 work and that in fact they would prefer for him to be more like a 5 year old more often as he can be quite serious about his work.

His reading age is 10 years so he is advanced in other areas but not sure about maths as we haven't had a full parents evening since September. The level 2b/2c was purely creative writing because he appears not to be applying himself as much as maybe he could.

I didn't put him up a year, it was suggested as the best thing for him as he is quite mature for his age as well as the academic side and it seemed to be ok until today especially as he isn't struggling in that year, quite the opposite, hence why I was asking for advice.

MollieO - I don't think its a big deal at all, was just asking for advice, I would have preferred for him to have stayed in the correct age group as he is away from his friends for the majority of the day and schools should be able to stretch the children to their individual ability.

Thanks for all the comments (positive and negative), my first experience of mumsnet - quite strange!

OP posts:

seeker · 07/02/2012 23:06

Strange?

muffinflop · 07/02/2012 23:15

So he'll go in to year 3 in September. I dont understand why, if you would have preferred him not to 'skip a year', why you agreed to it. They wouldn't skip a year without lots of meetings and parents consen surely?

muffinflop · 07/02/2012 23:16

*consent

QED · 07/02/2012 23:29

The putting children into Year 2 when they "should" be in Year 1 due to the numbers in Year 1 is v similar to what happened in DS's old school. We were offered the chance for him to go into Year 2 but it was basically due to there being too many children in year 1 (they had had two teachers for the first term in year 1 but then this stopped at Christmas). We didn't agree with DS going into Year 2 so he didn't. It was then passed along to various other children. In the end one girl did go into Year 2 and another went back into Reception which was right for her. Don't know whether the girl who went into Year 2 stayed there as we have now moved away.

It was "sold" to us as a great opportunity when it was actually the school realising they were about to breach infant class size. Am v glad he didn't go into Year 2 then tbh

MollieO · 08/02/2012 00:00

He's with 4 others from his year. What do their parents think about the arrangement? If you aren't happy why don't you ask to have him moved back to yr 1? School at his age is a lot to do with learning how to function in a different social environment from home. Academic work is a very small part of this.

Imho it is more important at the age of 5 that a child develops confidence and self esteem than galloping through levels of achievement.

It is rare in older years that a child can rely on ability and make no effort. Ds is in yr 3 and the school now gives effort grades. It has been a bit of a surprise to him as he isn't getting top marks for effort, unlike the tests he does well in for absolutely no effort at all.

Original poster

lou231179 · 08/02/2012 08:19

QED - totally agree, we were also told what a great opportunity it is but later found out about the numbers and it does have its benefits as he is in a class of less than 20 and he is achieving well there was just this one issue but I now believe maybe it was the way that it was communicated to me suggested there was a problem but his teacher has said there isn't at all!

My main issue is next year when he really is in Year 2 as I think most of the time will be spent with the Y1s who have moved to Y2 for the first time ensurig they are at the required level. He can't be in a mixed Y2/3 class as his school is infants only. If he gets the place at the independant school (he is next on the waiting list) then it shouldn't be a problem as they can work much more individually with the children but they are with children the same age.

MollieO - I like the idea of effort grades, my DS would probably be the same.

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