Has anyone had to give up a choristership because they can't afford it?

[littlebitrusty]

Hi everyone - hope that's an 'everyone' and that someone, somewhere replies to this post - I am new here!

My question relates to the offer of a choristership which pays some of the fees, but still leaves over £8000 left to pay. We have just been turned down for a bursary with a body which the cathedral thought we may have a chance of getting.

I am slightly worried now as the private school the choristers go to offered my son a bursary to get him started before he began working as a chorister.

We put him in the school and scraped together (from a loan from grandparents) the money for this first year. If we had to pay all of that money (£8000), it would effectively put us 'in poverty' using the official definition of that. At this point, I don't think we would even be able to afford to drive him to the school each day!!

Now I'm thinking - what if we have to backtrack and remove him from the school, also telling him his dream of being a chorister will not be realised? Will the cathedral really expect the whole family to be in poverty? (I also have another child, who has had to move to a different state school). Has this happened to anyone? What happens to the v. disappointed, upset chorister?

Many thanks for any help or advice that anybody may be able to give.

Why haven't you got a bursary from the choir school? The choir school we are looking at for ds offers 100% bursary which of course is means tested, and a 50% scholarship, which is not. No idea of income levels for bursary though.

I'm only letting ds audition on the basis that I could just about afford half boarding fees. If I had to pay full fees then he would have to realise his dream of being a chorister in the local church instead!

I think you need to speak with the school. Can he be a chorister without attending that school?

If you can't afford it, then I think it isn't a wise move. There must be other ways he can fulfil his musical ambitions. Alternatively, are there other sources of funding?

MollieO - the school is not exactly 'the choir school' - it is a very nice little school that the cathedral (on closing their own in the 80s) chose to nominate as the school that the boys HAVE to attend (and this is non-negotiable, Northernlurker, unfortunately).

Yes, I will speak to the school, but the bursary that every choir boy gets is just 25% - I believe this is dependent on how rich the cathedral is, how much money it makes from CD sales etc. I will also have to speak to the cathedral again.

pchick - yes, perhaps not a very wise move! Unfortunately, it is done now! We moved from a town about 40 mins away - so my husband now has a lengthy and costly commute to work - because we were aware (and they made a great impression on us!) of the commitment needed from a very young child (8years). They maintained all along that 'no boy should be prevented from becoming a chorister for lack of funds'.

I have tried repeatedly to get them to tell me what they calculate a family of four can live - believe, we have, at times, lived in poverty and I grew up in poverty. Before all this happened (and my helpful husband blames me for putting ds up for it!) we had a good life - not rich, but I had just started earning around £80 a week from self-employment and we could afford to have scones and tea at the local garden centre once a week, swimming now and again, some new clothes occasionally! Unfortunately, everyone I come into contact with at the school or cathedral will not make a commitment to telling me how much, if any, help will be available.

I'm just thinking sometimes - surely no-one would do it if it was going to plunge you back into poverty?! Do the Church of England want this? I understand, btw, that some people are already in poverty - for them, I would say 'go for it! as you have nothing to lose!!'

Thanks for all your replies too.

Didn't you fill in a bursary application form? I would expect them to be quite open on the level of income that would qualify. I've no idea about the choir school we are looking at but it is a question I will ask if ds gets offered a place.

From the bit of research I've done most schools will expect you to go out to work if you are a SAHM, remortgage the house if you have equity and take account of mortgage etc. It is the disposable income they look at and there are various deductions made. I have a reasonably good income but I remember looking at the bursary info for Christ's Hospital (secondary school) and being surprised at the level of bursary I could expect (far higher than I would have thought).

It seems very odd behaviour from the cathedral. When we attended the open day I was surprised at the number of parents whose sole reason for attending seemed to be the thought of 50% off fees or full bursary. When I asked them if their sons enjoyed singing quite a few said not really. Weird to consider a choir school where the commitment to singing is 20 hours a week! Ds sings all the time but fortunately if he doesn't manage to get in he can continue singing in the boys choir at our local church, which is free and a very high standard (they were singing a grade 7 piece in choir practice this week).

I hope you get something sorted out.

Thanks MollieO.

Yes, I have tried to pin everyone down to actual figures but it is all a bit cloak and dagger - they just smile and say things like 'let us know about your situation' etc. Their literature about it says about bursaries that you 'have to be realistic' whatever this means!!

We have equity in the house - though not an unusual amount considering I bought my first property about 15 years ago when I was 21 (and incidentally, on a tiny income then). I have now got a part-time job which I was thrilled to get in a recession, considering I haven't worked in an office for over 7 years, but it is only part-time.

We moved in order for my son to attend the school and because I knew what the time commitment was - practice every morning, services every evening bar one each week and 2 on a Sunday. Anyway, we are mortgaged up to the limit of what we are allowed so remortgaging isn't really an option.

I have just done some 'benefits calculator' forms on the internet, as some of these bursary organisations say they will only help people on an income of less than £15000 - I didn't think this was possible and according to the benefits calculators it isn't. Anyone on this sort of income has it upped in benefits to the level that we're at anyway.

I shall feel a really very with the school and cathedral if it turns out they want us to pay a ridiculously punishing amount. We have made a big commitment already by moving - extra fuel costs, loss of my business, my daughter moving school (and of course, ds), loss of friends, lifestyle etc. Anyway, my husband has now decided that we will not all live in poverty to put ds in the school and choir.

I feel like choirboys are doing a job and it does not seem fair to make everyone suffer like this - and also have this uncertainty hanging over us when we have just moved house!!

Thank you for replying btw - and good luck with your ds (and trying to pin them down to amount of assistance - not as easy as it might sound!)

Not that it helps but have you looked at any other choir schools? You may find they are more supportive and helpful. Obviously your ds is very talented so it would be a shame to not be able to fulfill his potential.

I'm surprised that the cathedral is being so difficult and vague. It is all over the website of the school we are looking at that they offer up to 100% bursaries. If yours is saying that lack of funds shouldn't be a bar I don't understand why they won't now help you.

Also there are a limited number of choristers so they should have a budget in the bursary to accommodate that need. I think it would be unusual to have a chorister that is not on some type of bursary as well as a scholarship.

Hmm - don't want to give too much away about where we are, but there is nowhere nearby - we're in a fairly remote, poor part of the country where average earnings are lower than the rest of the UK.

I suppose they have said that people on incomes higher than such and such - I forget the exact figure because it was way beyond what we earn.

My husband is being very 'I told you so' about it - to top it all the area we have had to move to (being the big city round here) is much more expensive and the house we bought needs a lot more doing to it than we thought. Currently, the house is full of rolls of insulation as we are insulating two rooms which are in the loft (it is a bungalow). We have no carpet in places, no ceilings in one loft room, leaky windows and an upstairs toilet that we never go in as the plumbing is so dodgy - we will just shut the door on this for the time being!

On the plus side, I have a job that, whilst not fantastic, I would certainly not have got where we used to live and I like the town - it's just so worrying and I am dreading having to tell my little boy that he can't stay at a school he was really proud to attend, and loves and won't be able to be a chorister - it makes me really cross with school/cathedral actually.

Have a look at the Charity Commission website and seek out the Cathedral/school. There will be published accounts that you can look at that should tell you the amount paid in bursaries for choristers. I've just had a read of the one we are interested in.

Talk to the school and fill in the forms and keep looking. The Cathedral and the school should be interested in helping you access their own bursaries plus others that exist. My daughter's just been offered a choristership and the boarding fees will be the killer; but we have been given a list of places to look at applying to, they will help with filling in the forms, and they have been actively seeking to boost their own bursary funding. We've not been promised anything yet but they did say we should stand a chance. I hope they're right!! Their current Cathedral bursary is only 30% of the day fee, even if they have to board.

I'm not earning at the moment but hope to get back into work - our savings won't last long if I don't!

Make it clear that you are having to consider pulling out - they will have to take you seriously! Very best wishes for getting it sorted.

Python that sounds mad. You'd expect them to base bursary on the boarding fees if there is a requirement to board. 30% off day fees at the school I'm looking at would only be the equivalent of 15% off boarding fees.

OP this sounds very odd,bursary policies should be completely transparent . (I work in an independent school)they should tell you exactely the criteria on which awards are made