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Residential school trips

38 replies

Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 12:13

DD (7) is going on a residential school trip in March for four nights (Monday morning to Friday evening). We have known that this trip is coming up since time immemorial as it is a regular annual feature of her year (French equivalent of Y3) at her school. I have used the fact that DD is going to be going away on this trip to prepare her to be able to wash herself, pack her suitcase, tidy her stuff etc and she is all set and has been for a while. So far so good.

Last night I went to the meeting for all parents of children in DD's year with the director of the centre they will be staying in, the deputy headmistress and all the teachers in DD's year for an explanation of how the trip works. I was Shock Shock Shock to learn that the children will not be expected to carry their own suitcases, unpack their own things, choose their own clothing, that they will be served at table, supervised for washing etc etc. Some mothers were asking whether the children will get help wiping their bottoms (answer: yes, if required).

These children will all be 8 years old in 2012. What is the point of going on a school trip if they are to be babied all the way?

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badsi · 03/02/2012 14:54

here's something that might be of interest to anyone who's kids are going on a residential trip. If your kids are entitled to free school meals then you are exempt from paying the board and lodging costs of the trip. The school should pay this for your children.

LikeAnAdventCandleButNotQuite · 03/02/2012 15:11

I used to work at a centre much like (I imagine) your DC go to. I am very surprised that they will not carry their own luggage...if I had a pound for every time I said to a child "well, it's a good way of building nice strong muscles". At the centres I have worked at the DCs made their own beds up from clean linen too, and stripped them and brought down to the linen rooms at the end of the week.

I imagine the teahcers helping them choose clothes is the best way to ensure they are appropriatley dressed as there wont be much chance for going back to the dorms during sessions.

Serving them their meals seems Hmm though.

workshy · 03/02/2012 16:02

actually thinking back -I went to an activity holiday near lake evian when I was 16 and we were served at the tables -that memory has only just appeared in my brain -how odd

we also had a packed lunch made up for us every day

perhaps they just don't want the dcs in the kitchens?

Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 16:29

I had a chat with other mothers at the school gate about this at pick-up - I was not the only one to be Shock Shock Shock at the level of service that our DCs will be getting on the school trip!

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rabbitstew · 03/02/2012 16:30

Ideally, children would be left to take on as much responsibility as they are capable of accepting. In reality, they are likely to be given as much responsibility as they are actively willing to take on, which means provision has to be put in place for those who cannot or will not take responsibility, or who need protecting from others' irresponsibility!

Not all parents can be bothered or afford to get their children child-sized suitcases. Do you propose those children be required to carry an adult-sized suitcase, packed full of heavy and unnecessary items, up lots of stairs? For those with sensible suitcases and backpacks, I doubt they will have these wrestled off them if they wish to carry them by themselves.

As for unpacking their own things - what's wrong with living out of the suitcase? Did they actually say anyone would be unpacking anything? I do not blame the school at all for wanting to avoid the inevitable mixing up of children's possessions if they are left to unpack things themselves, without supervision, that cannot be put straight into carefully marked storage compartments so as to avoid getting them mixed up with other children's stuff (and a suitcase is generally a perfectly acceptable marked storage compartment, if you ask me...). What adult has managed to come home from every holiday with all their possessions intact, even when not having to share their accommodation with 20 or 30 8 year olds? If each child has their own room and chest of drawers they could unpack everything. If not, then I can see why the school would balk at the idea of unsupervised unpacking.

I would not trust my children to wash themselves unsupervised at age 8 if there were lots of other 8 year olds being silly, giggling and taking advantage of no-one standing over them. I don't think an 8 year old playing about with their friends is old or mature enough to understand that not brushing their teeth for four days running is bad for their teeth - they need an adult standing in the bathroom with them to remind them of that fact. It may be fine to trust them at home (and be able to check their breath afterwards), but not fine when there are so many other distractions.

If the meals being served are not part of a buffet service, then why would you not leave one of the adults to put a heavy pot of casserole into the middle of the table and serve portions up into one bowl at a time to hand out? Why require them to waste hours getting children to push each other aside in order to get to the serving bowl and serve themselves unfairly small or large portions of food? I'm not aware of most families serving their food up that way. They should be required to clear their own plates away afterwards, though.

Some children at age 8 are STILL not physically capable of wiping their bottoms particularly well. Combine this with not supervising their washing habits and you are asking for a big stink.

Some children at 8 will be spending their whole time on the trip feeling homesick and miserable and will not be able to cope with not only being away from home but also being required to do things they are not used to doing for themselves - or possibly even doing things they are used to doing by themselves but only when they have the comfort of knowing their parents are nearby to help them if necessary.

School trips are not the same thing as brownie camps. All children are supposed to be included on school trips, not just those who want to be brownies.

Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 16:34

They are going to be two to a room (so not much mix up of things) and their suitcases are not going to travel with them so there is not much chance of them carrying them themselves.

The trip costs EUR 475 for the four nights - frankly, most of that seems to be going on being waited on hand and foot. Grrrrrr.

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rabbitstew · 03/02/2012 16:38

Sounds lovely! Is it a 5 star hotel?...

Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 16:43

No, it's a centre that only does school trips etc - meets all the H&S regulations. So rather grim to look at!

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PastSellByDate · 03/02/2012 16:47

Hi Bonsoir:

I think you're confusing nursery/ kindergarten in France with 'school = UK primary'.

Breakdown for unitiated here: www.frenchentree.com/fe-education/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=17202

CP ? Cours Preparatoire is the first formal grade of primary school in France which starts age 6 (the year you turn 7) and as far as I understand would be equivalent to reception year in UK school. Therefore, a much later start date than the UK, where children start formal primary age 4, the year they turn 5.

'Maternelle' (or Nursery) is available, often in French Primary schools, but is = to UK private nursery schools. (from about-france.com/primary-secondary-schools.htm): Ecole Maternelle; kindergarten or pre-school. Ecoles Maternelles take pupils from age 2 to age 6, and prepare them for entry into primary school. The French école maternelle is more than just a playschool; the curriculum includes reading and writing, numeracy and even sometimes a foreign language, as well as artistic and creative activities. There are three classes, "les petits", "les moyens" and "les grands".

My understanding is this kind of approach to kindergarten is typical outside UK. It is not required that children go to school until the year they turn to 7, but because french 'Ecole Maternelle' are free and run by municipalities, the vast majority send their children to nursery school. This seems to be more or less the system in western Europe and US/ Canada. So children are in 'nursery' but are not considered socially to be 'in school proper' - if you see what I mean. They're learning through play and learning to socialise and yes, starting to read and work with numbers, but still very early stages.

So again, Bonsoir, from a European point of view a trip in CE-1 (when 7/8 = Y3) would mentally be only part-way through their 2nd year of formal schooling and in that context, many French parents would feel their children are very young.

Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 17:05

PastSellByDate - I am extremely well acquainted with both French and British schools. 99% of children start French maternelle in the year of their third birthday and I can assure you it is school in every way - exactly the same teachers (same qualifications), the same hours, the same sitting down at desks...

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Bonsoir · 03/02/2012 17:06

And no French parent would say of their CE1 child that he/she had only been at school for 18 months! All of them consider CE1 to be the fifth year of school, and with good reason!

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workshy · 03/02/2012 19:34

rabbitstew
Some children at age 8 are STILL not physically capable of wiping their bottoms particularly well

really????

have they not had a poo at school for the previous 4 years then? Hmm

school residentials are also for the children that want to go, they aren't compulsory

they are a fantasic way of building up a child's independance and I think you are doing most 8 year olds a disservice by saying they aren't capable of looking after their own personal hygiene

AuldAlliance · 06/02/2012 12:23

DS1 went on two trips during maternelle, one in MS (he was just 5) and one in GS (he was just 6), with a 2-night stay both times.

They didn't carry their own bags, but quite a few of them were still a bit weedy at that age and they had to walk quite a long way up a steep hill from school to their bus, so a parent ferried all the luggage for them. Other than that, there was no being waited on, and only minimal supervision for washing, etc. Those who were clearly autonomous were left to get on with it, those who needed more help got it.

Bonsoir, perhaps your DD's school, insofar as it has a rather specific intake, also has an above-average number of children who are accustomed to being waited on?
Or maybe it's a way of justifying the enormous price tag? (Think we paid 50 euros for DS1's trips to the Alps...)

PastSellByDate, there are very few children who do not attend maternelle, and I know of no one in France who seriously thinks school starts at 7. Maternelle is very much school, and the few children who do not attend have serious trouble at primaire.

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