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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

unauthorised absence?

60 replies

jen333 · 03/02/2012 11:36

Just one day!! - last day of term, to enable us to take holiday (flights Fridays only) in school half term. Did the honest thing and made official application. Just received letter to say that it is unauthorised. One other day requested two years ago - my dd has excellent attendance otherwise. Has the world gone mad??

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IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 12:14

The world hasn't gone mad.

Why should the HT authorise it? It's holiday in term time.

It's perfectly fine for you to take one day of unauthorised absence. Nothing bad will happen.

However, the implications of the HT authorising the day are different. She's trying to send a message to the whole school that holidays in term time aren't allowed.

It may or may not be her decision anyway. She may be following rules laid down by someone else, or she may have made the decision herself.

If she's in Y2 or Y6 very, very few HTs will authorise it.

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 14:03

Thanks IndigoBell ... but are you sure?? Is the (education) world quite sane? It just seems a little extreme. All to do with SATs tests/Ofsted/Government initiatives etc., I know.

Its the second time putting my kids through the education system - my adult dss had almost two years out of primary education, whilst abroad - nothing untoward happened.

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WowOoo · 03/02/2012 14:06

It's one day, so forget about it. Good that you were honest too.

It may seem crap as it's much nicer to get it authorised. But, if you authorise one, you have to authorise them all really to be fair and it doesn't send out a good message.
Enjoy your holiday

FarloRigel · 03/02/2012 14:11

I just had two days authorised for the end of half term, they didn't bat an eyelid. Was for a family holiday meeting up with others, though, but DD's attendance has been a bit poor so I was a little concerned they wouldn't. I have heard some schools have a 'not under any circumstances' policy though. If it's just one day unauthorised though you'll not get into any bother I'm sure.

IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 14:14

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the whole education system is sane :)

There are many unusual things in it. Many competing factors pulling it in different directions.

But why should the HT authorise the holiday - they can't stop you taking it.

Work would never authorise you pulling a sickie .

Kids who attend less school do less well in exams. There's some nice powerpoint about how attendance effects your GCSE grades which effect your hourly rate :)

Certainly, those stats apply to kids who miss a lot of school, and not just one or two days in reception. But equally kids get a lot of holidays. Why should extra days be authorised?

It inconveniences the teachers, and is bad for the kids. Your child will miss out on learning.

I'm not saying it's a big deal. I'm not saying you shouldn't take the holiday. I am saying there's no reason at all for the HT to authorise it.

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 14:16

Thanks WowOoo! - it doesn't encourage honesty though does it?

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toddlerama · 03/02/2012 14:19

Why does it matter to you whether it's authorised or not?

Thetokengirl · 03/02/2012 14:19

Asked for a day off in term time for a family wedding. Got a phone call from the school asking if the wedding was actually on the Monday (the day I had requested). When I said no but it was on the Sunday in Wiltshire they said they would not authorise it. I said ok, but they are having the day off anyway! Several days later I got a letter giving us authorisation!
I was subsequently told by a teacher friend that it is better for the school's statistics to give authorised absence, rather than parents taking unauthorised absence.
So, maybe it's worth calling their bluff?

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 14:29

IndigoBell - OK - I understand that they don't need to authorise my taking one extra day. I was just trying to be honest. I wasn't taking "a sickie" (as others have done).

I suspect that the stats you mention probably prove that general child neglect (including regular school attendance) is detrimental to their overall educational achievement. My sons missed a total of two years junior education and are both now in top professions. They gained so much more from seeing a bit of the world.

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IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 14:31

Presumably your kids didn't miss school for 2 years, they were home educated. Which is something else entirely.

DeathOrCake · 03/02/2012 14:31

The school my children attend has started using an outside (private) company to monitor absence. The school pay for this service, even though the local authority do it for free. The LA would look at the child's attendance for the year/term etc, and base a judgement on that whether to fine the parents.
This private company fines everyone, whether it is one day or two weeks. They fine £50 per child, per parent, so effectively, you are penalised by being together.
I have no problem with the LA doing this if circumstances dictate it, and there is a problem with recurring absence, but I do have a problem with the school (which is always pleading poverty) paying for this service which it used to get for free.

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 14:34

toddlerama - well now I guess I don't care ... but at the time I thought it might have all sorts of scary implications. Thetokengirl - I am taking the day off anyway - our flight leaves on the Friday so there's no choice. I did put that on the request form. They know I'm going.

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ByTheWay1 · 03/02/2012 14:34

you asked, he said no - hey ho, you're going anyhow...... does it matter???

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 14:38

IndigoBell - no they missed school for 2 years! Home education ?? If you count swimming, playing tennis, and exploring China:)

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IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 14:40

Death - I think you can safely assume school wouldn't choose to pay for this service if they were happy with the service they were getting for free.

IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 14:43

Death - it's also possible the LEA no longer provide this service for free.

LurcioLovesFrankie · 03/02/2012 15:02

Death - 50 quid fines? Under what legislation do they have statutory authority to levy such fines? Or are they in fact (like private car park operators issuing "parking tickets") simply relying on parents being so intimidated that they pay up? I'm pretty sure that this sort of "fine" wouldn't stand up in court if they tried to institute any sort of debt collection. I'd tell them to take a hike!

IndigoBell · 03/02/2012 15:05

Lurcio - it's legal

School attendance

Penalty notices

As an alternative to prosecution, authorised local authority staff, police officers and headteachers can issue penalty notices to parents of children who are not attending school regularly. The penalty is £50, rising to £100 if not paid within 28 days. If you fail to pay a penalty fine, you will be prosecuted.

Taking you to court

The local authority may prosecute you (they don?t have to issue a penalty notice first) and this could result in a more severe penalty.

You could get a fine of up to £2,500, a community order or, in extreme cases, a jail sentence of up to three months. If the court thinks it will help to stop your child missing school, it may also impose a Parenting Order.

I think it's very probably that the LEA no longer provide this service, and the school now have to pay for it.

shesparkles · 03/02/2012 15:05

Good for you for your honesty..I'd ignore the unauthorised thing-you've authorised it, you're the parent and you outrank any teacher, head or otherwise!

My best absence for dd was for taking her to see Robbie Williams last year, I was honest about why she'd be off for a day (staying away overnight) and it was in the last week of term, and the only word I had back from the school was from her registration teacher to say she was jealous!
Then again, I ADVISE that the child will be absent, I don't ask for permission (have done it for a total of 4 days so far in 10 years of schooling so I don't think I'm headed for prison yet!)

DeathOrCake · 03/02/2012 15:43

IndigoBell a parent has requested the school's accounts under the freedom of information act, to find out exactly how much they are paying the company, and how much of the fine the school receives.
Our LA very rarely fined parents, only in exceptional circumstances. I think it is all down to money.

crazymum53 · 03/02/2012 16:00

My child's primary school would authorise this provided sufficient notice (2 weeks before holiday) was given and child had above average attendance.
This does depend on the school as some are much more stricter than others.

pointythings · 03/02/2012 19:03

If my school was one of those that contracted out fines, my children would be 'ill' on those days and I would not bother requesting an authorised absence. I understand the need to promote attendance, but draconian approaches only fuel dishonest behaviour. A child with good attendance having a day off for a one-off family event like a wedding should just not be a big deal.

I do not support actual holidays during term time, though.

simbo · 03/02/2012 19:09

This is the policy of our LEA and the Head has no choice but to send out the standard letter denying authorisation. The fine is only generated if they are out for 5 days. Just don't take it personally and enjoy your hols.

forceslover · 03/02/2012 19:52

I wouldn't worry about it, I mean it's not as if they will be doing any work is it, a bit of colouring and DVD watching is par for the course at EOT. Go and enjoy.

Original poster

jen333 · 03/02/2012 19:58

Thanks Simbo ... will do. I guess, as ever, the majority are having to conform to slightly over zealous rules because of a minority. All the time spent at school is not so precious - I cannot believe that it takes 11 years of schooling just to get a handful of GCSEs. Fortunately, at the moment anyway, my ds loves school.

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