Small School Disadvantages

[Beccatheboo]

My 6-year-old son goes to a small 'good' primary - 1 class per year. We chose to send him there rather than the 'outstanding' infant school everyone raves about, largely because the infant school has 3 classes per year and we were worried about him being 'lost in the crowd'. He is doing very well and enjoys his time at school. I have always done a lot with him (reading etc), so whether he would do any better at the other school is another matter (and another thread - how the heck do parents actually know how good a school really is, aside from Ofsted! I hear that the infant school 'does more with the children'?).

One concern I suppose I have is - is he missing out on things going to a small school? After-school clubs are few and far between, and the creative arts (ie drama and music) are certainly not embraced. The school nativity (only up to year 3) is the only school play. There is no choir, recorders at assembly etc. Obviously due to numbers our government funding is less, particularly as there aren't many children in receipt of free school meals. Please let me have your experiences of small schools. I love the fact that children from 4 to 11 interact with one another, and all the teachers know my child.

There are pros and cons to each. And as you've made your decision and are happy with the school I'm not sure you should still be worrying about it.

Why dont you get involved and offer the school to aid in sorting some of the things out if you feel he is missing out?

Alternatively take him to such activities outside.

It is all relative as to what constitutes as a small school the primary my youngest two are in is a infant with 107 students ( intake of 15 pr year two classes together) and I have read of people here who have children in schools that has 50 students and they view the one my children are in as a large school.

Personally I think you will find that it is swings and roundabouts. the outstanding school may have after school activities but will perhaps have less of a student lead approach and less likely teachers knows all the children. So you gain some and loose others.

Personally i feel the out of school activities can be aided with perhaps the PTA getting involved will work, the football club in the primary mine are in is run by one of the dads. They are currently sorting out a choir that is after we have been there for 4 years.

My DSs go to a small village school - each school year has about 15pupils so every class is made of 2 year groups.
They have a school choir, band, then in after school club (held daily) they run a variety of activities - one day is recorder lessons, one day is cooking, one day is French club etc.
It suits my DSs being in a small close knit school and I wouldn't move them for anything :)

DS is in a small school - not really by choice, it's just the local school. Still has plenty going on, maybe you could join the governors if you'd like more activities? I think one big negative can be that by year 6 (not ds yet) they are sick of each other and a lot of rows happen, but perhaps that's just year 6s Friends have ameliorated that by ensuring that their children are in clubs outside school with a different circle of friends. Overall I love the school and am very happy with its size - i think if your ds is enjoying himself and doing well you have clearly done something right, and so have they.

I'm not sure that the lack of drama or after school clubs is necessarily a small school issue: when I moved ds2 from a 3 form entry school to a 1 form entry school it was in order to secure more opportunity to be in clubs, teams, drama etc. Just sounds if if there are different priorities at your school.

Small schools have a lovely family feel. The children all know one another, and the older ones do seem to take care of the younger ones. There is an opportunity for everyone to shine at something (though as with any school some children are simply talented at lots of things!). The downsides are that children can stand out (for the wrong reasons), it is very easy to end up with a severe gender imbalance in a particular class, and it may be quite a shock when you move to secondary school, especially if part of your identity has been tied up int he fact that you are "the one who is good at...." when the peer group is 10 or 15 children, not 200+ children.

My kids are at a school with 100-odd kids and there are loads of activities. Loads of clubs, and dd (ds is Reception so not doing as many things yet) is more likely to get involved in things she wouldn't otherwise have tried. In a few weeks she's on the school orienteering team (!), there are instrumental lessons, she is currently in Poetry Club, the school got in these amazing puppet people last year and there were 4 puppet shows performed on different parts of the school grounds.... It is down to the school being keen and getting parents to help out a lot (I do a needlework club), and because the headmaster is shit hot at balloon modelling. They tend to open things to a mixed range of ages, so where a big school might offer, say, Spanish Club, to a few years they opened it to everyone, but it was only there for a year - what does happen is that things come and go as it is dependent on parents, so you have to grab it while it's there.

So it is not an inevitable consequence of being a small school. And one consequence of it being small is that it is quite easy to make things happen. So if you did want to start changing the culture, you could easily start nattering to other parents and work out if any of you could run clubs, and then go to the school and put forward the suggestion. They will probably grab it with both hands.

Our school has an Artsmark which is an award for schools that do lots of creative arty stuff. You might want to look at it and see if it is something your school could be persuaded to work towards, as a way of galvanising them.

LadyMuck - yes re gender imbalance. DD is the only girl in her year group. I think it does affect her, she gets left out of some things as while she's friends with girls above and below she's not really a core part of either gang.

otoh she did get to be Mary in the Nativity so it's swings and roundabouts

My DD goes to a small school with two years per class. There are few extra-curricula activities, but to be honest if you can affort it I think it's better to encourage your child to go to activities outside school in these situations. I think in small schools there can be a problem with children getting isolated, particularly if significant numbers tend to move away or go to private schools in yr 3. If your child has ab it of a broader friendship base outside school this can help a bit should this happen. Obviously this usually costs more though.

We had a similar choice to you.
The size of the 3 class intake outstanding school was putting us off, but on going to visit found it fantastic. The 3 classes were like their own little community, loads going on - lots of input from lots of enthusiastic staff, lots of facilities etc. We put it down as first choice.
But we got our 2nd choice - small village school with an intake of 20 each year group.
I thought we'll put DD on the waiting list for the bigger school and move over when we can. But as it's turned out DD is thriving in her little school and we'll stay put.

There are pros and cons.
But really you can only do so many after school clubs anyway. One or two is enough in a week.
The Head and the staff know all the families well, the children mix well, the views are inspiring.

I have the same wobbles as you when I think about the lack of space in the school, the limited friendships etc.

There are pors and cons for smaller and bigger schools
Small - easier perhaps to settle into to start, but my, what a shock when they go to secondary.

3 Form or more, more likely to move around for different groups / classes / sets and generally get used to having more teachers and being part of a bigger group (in the playground and assembly for eg) - tends to mean they are much more independent when they get to secondary and find the change less intimidating.
3 form entry - much less likely to get into the football team / get chosen to be 'Mary'/'Joseph' for the nativiy as only have a 1in 45 chance not a 1 in 15.
3 form entry - where there really is a clash between children (or, the opposite that 2 great friends just egg each other on and become disruptive), then there can be no separating or splitting them into sep classes

The after school clubs isn't really to do with size - some schools do a lot, others hardly do any. Again though, in a bigger school, there's more children wanting a place.
Possible more sustainable to have some things (eg like a breakfast club) for a bigger school, but, again, more children fighting for the places.

However, as you are already in the school, not sure why you ask ?

Re. gender imbalance - there are 17 boys to 5 girls! I have been considering volunteering to run some sort of after-school/lunch club, maybe drama, but I have no experience of teaching it so I don't know how the school would view it. I also have a 3-year-old son who would not sit quietly on the sideline! I know that clubs aren't everything but they are an embellishment. I welcome the opportunity for children to try something new. Our town has a pretty dire selection of 'outside' opportunities, and sadly when something new starts there's little support. I think lack of money is a major factor though.

I have toyed with the idea of becoming a governor but need to find out more. I don't know how much influence they can have - meetings for meetings sake with no outcome would frustrate the hell out of me. And, sounding very cold, it's my own child's experience I'm most concerned about.

Re-reading my original post I come across as very indecisive. I am happy with our school selection, I just get drawn into the whole 'our outstanding school is far superior' talk from 'rival' parents. I hate being a 'sheep'!

IKWYM re meetings. I am so happy to be doing my own little club because it means I can give something back to the school without having to get involved in politics. I would be a disaster in the PTA because I would keep wanting to chip in with things like 'Must we have a nail bar at the Christmas Fayre?' and they would all hate me.

There must be books and online resources about how to teach drama that you could mine for ideas.
I think you'd have to find some kind of childcare for the 3yo for the hour or so a week that you'd be doing the club.

My 2 go to a small village primary, 108 pupils, mixed yr groups.
Advantages - Everybody knows everybody, older kids look out for little one, "whole school" inclusive activities often done, lots of parental input, teachers know kids really well, class sizes usually below 25 (20 is the smallest), lunch clubs are good, although some after school activities are available.
Disadvantages - mixed yr groups, no breakfast/after school club, no dedicated science/domestic science/music areas, although all those are covered in curriculam, less facilities in general, everyone knows everything about everybody!
Ours has been judged as "Good with some Outstanding areas"

I was in a tiny school - 30 children in the school when I left!

It was fantastic as a primary school, but I had a hell of a shock going to a normal sized secondary with that many pupils in a class!

I would suggest keeping him where he is if you are both happy but try to get him mixing with bigger groups out of school and doing whatever activities he is interested in.

ds1 (10) and ds2 (4) are at a small local school, mixed year group classes, only 25 in the year 5/6 class. they've only been there a few months as we moved area. i think it's lovely for the littler kids, and in an ideal world would leave ds2 there until he's 7. but i don't think it's brilliant for the older kids - am really glad ds1 had been at a bigger school before as otherwise i think transition to secondary would be very difficult. some of his classmates have always been in a school with less than 100 kids, and they're going to one with 1400 in it.

also, nice a school though it is, if there's only 15 in your year group, and let's say at most only 7 of those are the same sex as you, your pool of friends is pretty limited. and if, as in ds1's class, there are 2 kids with a number of issues that mean they need a lot of extra attention, that really does have a massive impact on the class/friendships etc.

Mine went to middle sized schools, they were 90 per year but the infant and the junior schools are entirely separate. I do feel like they are/were small fish in a big pond but overall it has been positive.

The larger year group means there are 3 teachers per year so they very easily differentiate the work for a range of abilities as they can have the children in 'sets' for some lessons. The staff also organise themselves depending on their strengths, for example on a Tuesday my Y4 dd has Science, History and RE for an hour each with a different teacher, the three teachers have each of the 3 Y4 classes one after the other and do the same lesson with each.

The facilities are better than a nearby smaller school because it makes more financial sense when things are shared between a few hundred, they can get people in to do workshops and performances and have more computers and kitchens for cookery lessons etc.

I do like the idea of a small school though, it sounds cosy and caring.

My kids go to a one form entry primary. Classes Y2 to Y6 have between 20 and 25 kids, but Y1 and below are full. The school is now oversubscribed.

However, I back the mixing of kids from different year groups, the teachers knowing all of the children, etc that other posters have mentioned about smaller schools.

This school has really dedicated staff who run a load of lunch and after school clubs which are really popular, so the kids are very lucky. It also has more floor space than it should officially have so has a child-height teaching kitchen, IT room, library and dance studio/music room. The kids are seriously spoilt. LOL!

Yeah, I'm definitely in favour of smaller schools. :-)

We moved our youngest from a three-form entry 'outstanding' infants to the smaller, 'good' primary as the bigger school really didn't suit him. Despite the older two having gone there and loved it.

Sometimes it is just a matter of finding the right fit for a particular child.

1 form entry isn't 'small'! A 210 pupil school should be able to support a full programme of after school clubs, music, sport, and all the rest of it...

'Small' in our area is c. 50! We have nearly 100 and are one of the biggest schools in the cluster - and we have a full prgramme of music, after school clubs including recorders, 2 or 3 plays per year etc etc etc

ours go to a school with about 65 kids in total - mixed age classes. DS1 is in Y1, and has done cooking, dance, science club, nature club, football and multi sports at school. Next year he'll be able to join the choir and recorder club too. I don't think the lack of clubs is to do with the OP's school being small.

He has a smaller peer group than he would do at the local 2-form or 3-form entry schools, but the work is differentiated and the children work quite happily with others from different year groups when appropriate. The other thing is it's hugely nurturing, and has a great family atmosphere. There are 2 plays a year plus concerts.