Need insider's perspective - Francis Holland, Queen's Gate, Glendower, Falkner House

[ballerinamum]

This is my first post so forgive any faux pas (and the oft-repeated topic for that matter).

We moved from NY 16 months ago. DD is entering Reception this Sept. She's in nursery in Notting Hill. We registered for Pembridge Hall, Chepstow House and Norland Place. No chance of getting in though as we registered 3 years and 2 months too late.

DD is accepted to Francis Holland, Queen's Gate and Glendower and wait-listed at Falkner House. Deposit is due on 2 Feb. We need serious advice on schools. Are there any mums reading this with DDs currently enrolled at these schools? If so, please share your opinions. Specifically, which school is best academically? Which is more concerned about the whole child? Does the wait-list at FH move at all and should we work it or ditch it? Do the on-going schools (i.e. QC and FH) have any incentive to place their girls elsewhere for secondary education? Which school has the best maths and sciences teaching (for me, a litmus test for academic standards, especially for girls' schools)?

FYI, DD is very smart, verbal and social. But I don't sense a scholar or genius in her. She is more charming than bookish. She LOVES ballet and I see she can be good. She is a mid-Sept baby (i.e. will be one of the oldest in her year).

I would be most grateful for quick responses because of the timing imposed by the schools (not because I want to be pushy). Thanks!

Bumping this one, as I'd like feedback on Queensgate and Gelndower too

Hi! I also need feedback for Glendower, Francis Holland and Falkner House. All high-powered schools, apparently. What are the differences? Any bullying rumours for any of them - a bit of a concern about single-sex schools. Any comments much appreciated!

Glendower has a new headmistress who will start in Sep. The school hosted a reception last night for new parents to meet her. Her credentials are good and she came across as upbeat and personable during last night's meeting. I thought it would be more of a "reception" (involving mingling) than a Q&A session. They scheduled 1.5 hours for it but there were so few questions that it was over within half the allocated time. I've heard strong opinions on Glendower - both positive and negative - from mums with DDs currently enrolled or withdrawn.

I've talked to very few people with some insight into the schools. QC and Falkner House get consistently good reviews. Francis Holland gets mixed reviews. So I really would like more insider's perspective. Also, just realised I can't use FH as an acronym!

Hi ballerinamum! no wonder your daughter likes ballet ;-). Academically, among the three schools your daughter has been accepted, I would definitely say Glendower is the top. Not so sure about 2/3 but would think Francis Holland comes before Queensgate. Best is always to check exit results in terms of secondary schools and you will see Glendower gets lots of girls into the likes of St Pauls School and Sevenoaks. When I visited Glendower, I was so impressed with the girls and they seemed so smart, well-behaved and witty. Sounds like the right school for your daughter.

Falkner House is really good as well but I think it is quite similar to Glendower, so if you got into Glendower I wouldn't worry too much. Waitlist will move even at Falkner House bc there are girls who also get into Glendower or Garden House or Thomas's and will end up declining a place even at Falkner House, it happens at every school. But obviously it won't free up many spaces so I wouldn't really count on it. Did you have any reservations about Glendower when you visited?

By the way, I am not an insider (yet), DD1 is too young but I have visited all the schools, met the headmistresses and teachers and pupils and know parents with kids in those schools, so at least I know some hearsay, even though I am not a parent myself. You might also find these profiles useful:

www.londonpreprep.com/schools/girls-2/glendower-prep/
www.londonpreprep.com/schools/girls-2/falkner-house/

Thanks for the responses!

Sanam2010, in answer to your question about Glendower, I do have reservations about sending DD to a school with a new head, especially a school that supposedly experienced recent defections by teachers and students. It's all hearsay and I have not verified any of this. Last night, during the reception, some of the questions alluded to staff departures (e.g. an unfilled position and "what if" scenarios) though so I accept that the school must have had some difficulties recently.

I gravitate towards Falkner House because I like the head tremendously and feel that DD will be in good hands. The student who showed me around was immensely charming. The school's daily assemblies remind me of my old school too. I know someone whose DD transfered there from Glendower and raves about Falkner. None of these in isolation supports my gut feeling that Falkner is right for my DD, but everything together means something to me.

QG was the first school we visited and we fell in love right away. In fact, I visited twice to make sure that it was not a fleeting romance. I still have a soft spot for QG because every teacher I have met there seems passionate about the job. The little girls who showed us around were how I would love DD to turn out. The concern is that there is no outdoor space. But at this very minute, QG may well be our first choice.

Francis Holland's facilities is head and shoulders above the others'. One major asset (in my books) is its emphasis on ballet. All the houses are named after ballerinas (e.g. Fonteyn). I met the ballet mistress and saw the studios and am excited about having ballet as an integral part of DD's schooling. But if I take ballet out of the equation, I'm not so sure that Francis Holland is the right choice. I hear people rave about its academics and others who are lukewarm.

Sorry to confuse you all even further! This is such a sensitive and personal issues that I sincerely apologise if I tread on anyone's toes because all of these schools are topnotch. But if a debate helps this thread gain traction, that would be of value to other mums too.

Thank you for sharing this information. it is so hard to know what is just a rumour based on one parent's views and what are facts. Francis Holland is also changing head but that is not widely known yet. If I can add to your comments, one disadvantage of QG and Francis Holland is that they have senior schools attached to them and may not prepare the girls well enough for other schools. In terms of science teaching, I hear that QG is less strong in this area but that is a comment mostly for the senior school. For me languages and cultural mix are also important. Does anyone know anything about how these schools compare?

Francis Holland changing head too? Is it imminent?

Yes, Dina, I thought about your point on senior schools too. I wonder how much incentive QG and Francis Holland have to help their girls apply to other schools. On the other hand, I heard that these two senior schools are where some girls from Glendower and Falkner would end up anyway so, as DH pointed out, why go the long route?

Falkner seems to take pride in being a "feeder" for St Paul's and the head seems to consider St Paul's as the best choice for high achievers. This may not resonate well with some parents.

Hmmm....really hoping that mums with first hand knowledge of these schools would be kind enough to step forward and offer some guidance.

I have a friend with daughters at Francis Holland (Sloane Sq), and they are lovely, polite, bright little girls. They seem to be very much ahead on maths and literacy - I witnessed a homework session and both girls were very smart and motivated.

If your DD likes ballet, then I know they focus on that a lot - they have a big display/competition which I went to watch, and it was lovely. Lots of talented little girls, and a very inclusive, happy feel.

I'm not London based, and I don't know anything about the other schools, but I'd be more than happy to send my own 4 DDs to Francis Holland based on what I've seen if we lived down there.

I went to Queens Gate, but that was a long time ago now, and I left in what would have been year six because we moved out if the area.

Just out of interest, where do the children go to get outdoor time nowadays? We used to go over to the Natural History Museum garden every lunchtime, but they have turned it into a wild garden now. It used to be a lovely place to play.

Really appreciate the feedback.

Yes, GraduallyGoingInsane, ballet at Francis Holland is a big draw for me. Even though I can enroll DD into ballet classes at RAD or elsewhere, it's not the same as having ballet interwoven into the academic and social agenda. Your endorsement of their academic standards is encouraging for me. DH is leaning towards Francis Holland. The Sloane Square location is a bonus too because it's easy to get to on public transportation (we're looking for a permanent home so are flexible on location but it doesn't mean that we can find anything within walking distance to any given school).

IUseTooMuchKitchenRoll, you raised a pertinent point about QG. We LOVE its proximity to the museums but the lack of outdoor space is a bit of a drawback. I hear that the girls are bussed to Hyde Park or other green spaces for their outdoor exercise. That in itself is not a deal-breaker but goes on the list of cons.

In comparing QG and Francis Holland, my gut feel is that QG is more nurturing and intimate and more like a home away from home. Francis Holland seems bigger and not as warm. Am I misguided simply because Francis Holland has a larger campus?

Does anyone know if the Good School Guide 2012 is out yet? If so, I'm going to the nearest Waterstones to read up on the latest reports (I have the 2011 edition). Any views on how trustworthy this guide is?

I hope to speak to a mother whose DD is currently at QG on Mon. Will post any pertinent info.

There was a recent thread on the good schools guide and how schools got into it..... I don't know how to link it. Type it into search and it will pop up. Good luck with your decision.

Thanks, milkshake3. Read the thread and subscribed to online version of GSG (just one month). Nothing new in the 2012 edition on the schools I'm considering.

Just another bit of information about Glendower that I heard from another mum. The school was in some financial difficulties and had to ask each family for an additional £10,000. Again, I have not verified this at all and should stress that I have come across more mums who are positive about the school than those who dislike it.

Hi ballerinamum. My DD is at Glendower and we both are very happy with the school. We were not asked to pay £10,000 so not sure where your source obtained that information from. It's a great school where the teachers are passionate in what to and treat each child as an individual.

Hi ballerinamum!

RE. Falkner, I have a good friend who was also waitlisted (last year), and did get offered a place, which she accepted for her DD, obviously every year will be different.. Strikes me that you hang on as long as possible if you're really interested in the school, but my friend does seem to rave about it!

I've met a few who are not keen at all on Glendower in terms of pushyness, winning at all cost at sport for example (pre-school netball training??!) Francis Holland gets good reviews but isn't great on music and sport (Falkner seems to have a really good balance in this department between these two and academics). I now sound like i'm a bit of a falkner house evangelist though!

For what it's worth I've also heard very good things about FH's sport and music (I think they got a new head of music recently).

Thanks so much for the messages.

Pingu40, I really appreciate the feedback on Glendower. Your endorsement is more in line with all that I've heard about the school. The information about funding issues was from a mum whose daughter was at Glendower several years ago and left 3 years ago. As I said, I am really nervous about treading on anyone's toes and understand that even reporting others' opinion may come across as a disparaging remark from me. I put it out there more as a question than an opinion.

Londonmuddle, you are now getting my hopes up! I like Falkner House. It's difficult to describe but the feeling I got when I stepped foot inside the school for the first time was RELIEF. It felt like it was something I was looking for and finally found. But we are still on the reserve list....let's not jinx it.

misstoad30, by FH, do you mean Francis Holland or Falkner House please? From the context, I guess Francis Holland?

Less than 85 hours to go before deposit and contract signing! Still undecided!

Had a chat with someone whose daughter goes to Glendower, and she absolutely loved it. Teachers, sport, support network all great; she said that we couldn't go wrong with it.

Also, I looked up school of new Glendower Headmistress in the GSG, and v complimentary about her and the school she created.

They didn't mention it but looks like Queensgate Head of Lower School is also retiring next September (it's on the website).

Ballerinamum
You need to go with your instinct. We had three offers on the table but we loved Glendower in terms of size and warmth. We have not found the school pushy but a great fit for our DD. hope that helps.

hi, tricky decisions. hope this helps - francis holland head is leaving at the end of the year - they have a head of junior school who joined 18 months ago - but she is head of junior department rather than head of junior school....very much thinks of itself as a through school - they dont publish exit school results for 11+. ballet til yr 3 then extra curricular. one negative - i know several people last year put their children into assessments at ken prep, city of london prep and bute house to move the girls at 7+ from francis holland - none of them got in cos the maths was weak - tho they must catch up by 11?? I think glendower is seen as better than francis holland, paricularly for prepping for 11 - tho i only know one person whose child goes there - they moved her there at 7+ and are very pleased with it. Am so glad my son has a place at Eaton House which was all sorted before he was a month old and no assessments etc!!

Sorry for my ambiguity! By FH I meant Falkner House. Good luck with it all.

For what it is worth QC is perceived as much less academic at secondary that Francis H, Godolphin (sp?), City of London and Latymer (sp?), although I don't know as much about the primary. One point to comment on is that you have a good range to choose from, so well done there!

London555 - enjoy Easton house and the ease of getting of place, but blink and you will be in the 8+ mill :-)

Yes, I won't be nearly so smug when my darling boy genius doesn't get his first second or third choice at 7 or 8+!!

Hi! Any updates? Does anyone know if the Falkner House, Glendower and Francis Holland waiting lists have moved?

Thanks, Michaeilahpurple. I do realise that we're very lucky to have a choice.

BeckyBlunt and london555, thanks for letting me know about the imminent departure of the QG Junior School head and FrH head. They don't exactly shout it out from the rooftops although it is supposedly public knowledge. I actually did not know until I read your posts and then I called the schools to confirm. I met Nia Webb at QG and like her and am somewhat disappointed by news of her retirement. I have never met Stephanie Pattenden of FrH and the school assured me that junior school parents would really only be interacting with the junior head anyway. Both schools are in the process of selecting successors and there must be an air of uncertainty.

I have talked to parents at Glendower, Falkner House and QG but not anyone at FrH. It sounds like Glendower in particular attracts parents who are high achievers. Someone pointed out that they have 2 classes for each year at Glendower. This enables them to stream the students so that those who are capable of more advanced work are taught at a different level. The smaller schools do not have this provision.

Pingu40, a Glendower mum explained that the school expanded into an adjoining building a few years ago and needed to raise cash in a hurry because, for a number of reasons, they had a narrow window of opportunity to buy the building. The school organised a very successful fund-raiser. I think this was what the other mum was referring to when she said that the school was asking for money.

In terms of sports, I heard that Glendower excels while FrH is not as competitive.

I heard that neither FrH nor QG senior school is considered top notch academically but I shouldn't think about secondary schooling now or I will just drive myself crazy.

FrH has nice little touches such as requiring the girls to curtsey (may rub some the wrong way though). This may have contributed to some of the remarks I've heard about the school being more like a finishing school or a social school. I've also heard that parents tend to be rather uppercrust (read snobbish and maybe aloof).

In terms of admissions process, I like that FrH spends the most time with applicants. The assessment lasted 3 hours and involved 3 teachers observing 4 girls. I really feel that they make an effort in getting to know the girls and making sure that any candidate offered a place fits in. The other schools spent 45 min - 1 hour with the girls and in larger groups. That being said,
FrH is the only school that didn't have a parents' "interview". I like that QG and Glendower make an effort to meet the parents (outside of the required tours). I don't know about FH as we registered so late that we were practically on standby for an assessment. But FH's head is incredibly hands on and so generous with her time, even now that we don't have a definite place.

There, I hope I managed to make clear what statements above were from third parties and which ones were my own experiences. I'd love to hear from someone with first hand experiences with FrH please!

In my experience it can be difficult to get an existing parent to say anything negative about a school to a non-parent... having said that, my friend with one girl there likes Francis Holland but has complained about parent/school communication, eg finding out 11+ exit results as well as more day to day things. The current head is said to control the whole school and deals with parental complaints and requests, hence my earlier comment re the junior head being head of department, but maybe that will change with new head...the trouble with these things is one man's milk is another man's poison, people may have an axe to grind etc etc. And yes she said sports is not great in the junior school but if your child is not sporty who cares?

whilst writing - anyone got experience of garden house boys? read some things re eaton house that make me want another option just in case...

Dina2 - seems to me everyone will be holding out for something and so things wont move til after deadline and everyone has paid their deposits!!