Special needs children in mainstream class

[Bumperlicious]

Not sure how to get to the SN board so have put this here. In my Dd1's class (mixed reception & yr1 - dd is reception) there is a boy who I suspect has some sort of special needs. He didn't want to be in the class assembly, & from what I can gather from DD he has a 1-1 TA. The problem is DD keeps telling me this boy is naughty. And when they were off because of the strikes & I tried to explain it to dd she said "the teachers aren't coming in because of X".

I tried explaining to her today that X isn't really naughty, he just does understand things in the way she does, & he just needs a bit of help. I'm not sure how else to explain it to her, especially without knowing more of the facts.

Should the teacher be explaining this to the class at all. I don't want dd to continue to see him as naughty or resent him for disrupting the class or getting more attention. Is this something I should mention to her teacher?

Sorry, when I say 'He didn't want to be in the class assembly, & from what I can gather from DD he has a 1-1 TA.' I don't mean that it is indicative of anything, but those two things are all I know about the boy as dd isn't friends with him, and because he is one of the yr1 kids.

No the teacher shouldn't be explaining it to the class - any child's issues are private. If dd isn't friends with him anyway, I wouldn't feel the need to discuss it any further with her. A breezy "well, some children find different things harder than others, including sitting still/not hitting/being quiet" (insert whatever he is struggling with) - should be enough I would have thought.

My dd2 often comes home telling me X was naughty today, and I just say "well, he's still learning how you are supposed to behave at school, isn't he" and that's the end of that!

Yy, this is standard in lots of primary schools. I've always said things like, "X finds it hard to understand about waiting/sitting still/taking turns", or "Some people take longer to learn how to be gentle". For older dc things like, "we all have to learn that when you get angry you should tell someone instead of hitting, but some children find it really hard to remember that".

Most dc can empathise with kids who have poor anger-management or frustration tolerance, if you try and remind them of times when they've felt the same. So you can say things like, "Do you remember when you really wanted an icecream and I said no and you lay on the floor and shouted and kicked? Now you're a bit older you know that it's better to use words to explain how you feel, but some children take longer to learn that."

It's also okay to say, "If X does something that makes you feel scared then it's okay to move away from him or to tell a teacher." But overall you're just trying to reinforce the message that the child is not choosing to behave badly, he just hasn't quite learnt to control his feelings yet, and maybe has special people in school to help him learn how to do that. You can put a positive spin on it by saying, "It's lucky that you've learnt that already, because that means you have time to learn more interesting things like blah blah."

I wouldn't worry about it, as such: as long as it's being well-handled by the school and isn't totaly dominating the classroom activities, there's no reason for it to be a problem. Quiet well-behaved first-born girls can be particularly by slghtly more raucous behaviour that might not faze a boisterous child with noisy older siblings like my youngest dd for example.

tbh I think it's tricky.

On the one hand I agree that it shouldn't be down to the teacher to have to explain to children re a child's sn and that essentially this information is private. But on the other hand this only really works if a child has an invisible disability i.e. has LD's/a disability that results in behavioral problems, and so from that perspective I think that some children get a rougher ride than others.

A child that is in a wheelchair or who was unable to speak or hear or see would have obvious differences to their peers and it would be an automatic explanation that x doesn't do things in the same way as us because they can't walk/see/hear etc. Nobody would expect a teacher to deny that a child was in a wheelchair for instance because it is blatantly obvious.

But for children with less visible disabilities such as autism they are automatically on an unequal footing, because apparently it's wrong to tell people that said child has a disability, something which would explain why they perhaps have their own TA/have different consequences to bad behavior than their peers etc, and yet because no-one can say they have a disability, it's also wrong that they are treated differently.

Children at this age have a very specific idea of what's right and wrong, and what's fair and what isn't, and it can be hard for such young children to see that x is always treated differently to them when no real reason is given for that.

I do understand that people feel that a child's disability is private, but on the other hand why should it be hidden away - having a disability is not somethig to be ashamed of, or swept under the carpet, it is precisely this attitude to invisible disabilities that leads to people having such ignorant attitudes and reactions when perhaps a bit more knowledge and understanding would create a different reaction..

Thanks for the replies. I understand about the privacy of the child, hadn't really thought about that. I also don't want her to get the idea that there is something "wrong" with him.

You are right, dd is v rules based & black & white, so as far as she is concerned he is being naughty. I will just keep on with the message about people taking different times to learn things.

My worry is that without adequate explanation that she will start to think that she should be disruptive in order to get attention. I've no reason to think that is happening at the moment, but she has said of her little sister "I wish I could be a baby so I could be naughty", and does tend to copy her. I do try & explain in the same way that dd2 hasn't learnt yet and she should try & show her how to behave.

Thanks for the replies.

As someone who was a child with disabilities in a mainstream school, I thought I'd jump in with my point of view.

My disabilities were sight/hearing losses - which actually are not obvious disabilities at all (perhaps complete loss might have been, but partial not).

I would not have appreciated a teacher giving people information at all. Not least because teachers are no more clued up than anyone else about individual disabilities, and judging by comments they made to me, I think they would have been quite misleading if they'd favoured other people with their impressions!

Perhaps another child might think differently. But it's up to the child. If they want it explained, they can do so. (obviously harder at a young age, I know.)

Some children might have behavioural difficulties at school because of their family situations - but is it appropriate for the teacher to tell the rest of the class that 'X's parents are splitting up at the moment', or 'Y's dad beats him up'. I think not. Equally not appropriate for someone to take it on themselves to 'explain' a disability.

Throughout life, your child will meet people with disabilities (hidden or otherwise), or with various other issues in their life. This is the time to start teaching them that everyone is different, and you don't jump in to judge other people's behaviour.

Also 'knowing' that someone has a disability, or what the name of that disability is, or even various information about it, unfortunately doesn't magically make everyone (adults or children) behave well around them. Often the 'knowing' causes problems of its own. People use it to be vicious, or try to be helpful and over-compensate, or all sorts of other things.

The best thing is to get to know the person as an individual. It will gradually become clear through small daily interactions what is appropriate to do / not do (just like with any other person, actually). And if you don't want/need to get to know them, then you probably don't need to know any personal information about them, just withhold your quick judgements. I think that's what we should be teaching children to do too.

frogs advice about what to say looks good.

Just my point of view.

In that case def say to the teacher that your dd is maybe feeling a bit overlooked (this can happen with naturally well-behaved, quiet children) so that the teacher can make sure she feels rewarded for her good behaviour.

And you can talk up to your dd the advantages of being able to behave well. But after a while it's best not to encourage too much discussion of other children's misbehaviour, whether SN-based or not. My youngest dd can get a bit self-righteous about things that she thinks other people have done wrong and tbh I mostly discourage it, otherwise it can turn into a ranty smug-child-gloat-fest, which doesn't help anyone. I tend to say things like, "Yes, well, we know that some people find it harder to behave well, we dont really need to talk about it. You wouldn't like it if everybody else was talking about your mistakes or things you'd done wrong, would you?"

That usually knocks it on the head quite effectively.

You might want to point out to her something she does find hard herself, and say everyone find some things hard. Maybe she doesn't like change, or gets nervous.
I would also point out that maybe he doesn't like loud noises, or his clothes feel uncomfortable, or doesn't like strange smells.
My kids have always had children with SEN in their classes, and I think it has made them better people. It has moved from children with "problems" to understanding some of the labels (such as Downs and Autism). Admittedly being partially sighted or in a wheelchair came seem easier to understand at times.

Yes, I agree with frogs again about children being quite self-righteous, regardless of whether it's SN / SEN based or not.

My 4yo is very like this. I think it's because they're at the age where they're learning to internalise rules of behaviour and so they're very quick to judge others 'He didn't say thank you!', 'She snatched, that's naughty, isn't it?'

My DH always answers it with 'Tell me about what you did, not about what X did.'

Actually I disagree that it's not the teacher's job to explain. I get the need for privacy and of course they shouldn't label or tell specifics, but it's unfair on both the child and on his friends if the children aren't helped to understand things they can do to help him mix/ settle and be part of the class as much as possible.

For example in my son's class there's a severely autistic boy. He has a 1:1 TA. the children all know his triggers, which in his case are loud noises and people crying; both really upset him. So when it was his birthday, the teacher thought it might be best if they didn't sing Happy Birthday as it could overwhelm him, but the kids wanted to and suggested they sing it in a whisper. Very sweet, but also very sensible.

A child with a 1:1 helper has quite profound needs, so the teacher has to help both them and the other children find the best way to make them one of the class.

In my experience, teachers have always used circle time to discuss individual differences very effectively in yr r and yr 1. Usually the teacher will contact the parents of the dc with sn and ask permission to discuss x's disability with the class, but it's usually given. Anything that makes life easier for the child with a disability is usually encouraged by parents.

I have known schools use social stories about children with autism at circle time to introduce discussion about difference, and then lead in to a brief discussion about x in their class, who also has autism etc. teachers are very well used to doing this.

Currently dd2 has been asked to write her own story about what it is like to have a disability which can then be shared with the class. They have already had several circle times (dd2 is in her third mainstream class) discussing her and her disability.

Disability is not shameful, and it does not have to be hidden. The angst surrounding difference is misplaced imho. I would rather a parent approach the teacher and say 'x is having trouble understanding y's behavior/ different abilities, I don't know if other children are struggling as well'. The teacher will of course not confirm with you the exact nature of the problem so you can discuss it with your child, but it is likely to be addressed in the class once it has been cleared with the child's parents.

Openness leads to understanding. Shying away from the discussion, being coy, and using euphemisms isn't helpful. It leads to embarrassment and ostracism of the child with sn's parents, not from any vindictive purpose, but from lack of understanding and fear of upsetting them. it's very isolating having your child as the elephant in the room.

Op, just mention it in passing to the teacher. Difference is a key discussion topic in yr r anyway. For this exact reason. There are also loads and loads of kids books about autism (insert any other disability) which you can borrow from the library and read together.

Why all the angst? No need. The child has sn of some description. Your child doesn't understand. Mention it to the teacher.

I'm a bit surprised by this post. There is a child with a disability in my DS's reception class, who has a 1:1 TA. My DS has not especially noticed that this child is different and that seems to be case for a lot of the children. My DS has occasionally said things like 'We are not allowed to cuddle the grown ups, apart from X' or 'X kept trying to run away today' but doesn't seem to think that is strange to have a different set of rules for different people. I had put it down to their age that they had not really noticed.

Having said that DS didn't notice 2 DC he had known from birth were identical twins until he was nearly 4 and my DD didn't notice until just over 3. Their mum said most children don't notice until they are around 3.

i think it gets more important depending on the child and difficulties tbh. both dd's have had children who occasionally need to be restrained in their class (and the classes evacuated for safety). some children find that v distressing, obv, and so some sort of explanation is necessary.

this is the second 'culture of secrecy' thread today. tis bizarre. the more people know about disability and the more it is normalised, the less fear and stigma. you don't have to make a song and dance about it, but where people don't understand (like the op's dd1) why not explain? it isn't being voyeuristic or intruding, it's giving the dd the explanation she needs to understnad, and it's working towards making disability a perfectly ordinary part of life, not something that needs discussing in hushed tones.

DD was in a class with two statemented pupils for the whole of primary
one was medical problems that led to learning problems and increasingly erratic behaviour as the years went past
other was sort of autistic ish and could be very unpredictable
both fully mobile but sometimes VVV disruptive
on the up side, on their good days the class had three teachers because their LSAs were able to help the rest of the class
and DD and her cohort gained INVALUABLE understanding of not to judge a book by its cover
both went to specialist secondary schools