Oxford Reading Tree - what is WRONG with these bucketheads?

[solidgoldbrass]

Do they sit down and work out how to create books that are entirely witless and infuriating on purpose? I mean, as if Biff & Baff & Fucko and their Magic Key weren't tiresome enough, we are now on to Ant and Dec and Dipshit and their magic shrinking watches (The X Project). Stupid stories with no context, no resolution, no sense of character... are they trying to create a generation of book-haters?

My DS likes the ORT books. I see the magic key mentioned upthread and DS thought that was great. I like them too and don't understand the problem!

ORT books are a scheme. They allow children to practise certain things about reading, certain skills- but not everything about reading, obviously. Talking about the story, how characters feel, what might happen next, how someone could have behaved differently and so on are so much more important than merely reading the words mechanically. Decoding words and reading are very different things. Reading a wide range of fiction and non-fiction texts is key to both enjoyment and attainment. I could go on but...

decoding words IS reading. Without the ability to decode words, none of the rest of the things you mention is possible.

There is no reason to think that teaching children to decode words precludes their ability to think and talk about what they are reading. If you think about it logically that really is a very strange viewpoint.

ORT doesn't unfortunately teach children to decode words they weren't written for that purpose. They are intended to teach whole word memorisation through repeating them over and over.
I would suggest decoding is one of a number of skills a reader requires but is only the beginning and would agree that decoding isn't reading and dare I say it even being proficient at all the skills required for reading doesn't make someone a reader.

Nobody has mentioned Simon and Elizabeth. Does this mean they have been consigned to the flames of history? I do hope so, I remember thinking they were even more boring than Peter and Jane (who I quite liked as a preschooler).

The ones that followed Simon and Elizabeth (Rainbow books? You started on red, went through the colours and the last three were stripey), "gold and silver" books, they were hardbacks and SO bloody boring. They were really really old as well, but they were the "higher level" reading scheme in my school and we used to be so jealous of the other kids doing Roger Red Hat.

I am dreading my DC having to do really boring reading scheme books, but I quite like the sound of these 80s ones! I looked at some phonics scheme books the other day and was totally baffled, is there something I could read that would explain it all to me? I want to be prepared :)

'I would suggest decoding is one of a number of skills a reader requires but is only the beginning and would agree that decoding isn't reading and dare I say it even being proficient at all the skills required for reading doesn't make someone a reader.'

Absolutely, Mrz. but decoding skills are the essential start. The massive problem we now have is that the first sets of Biff and Clip lack imagination and true expression and encourage ~Whole Word learning, looking at pictures, guessing etc. These books have been superceded by Floppy's Phonics which do help to ensure that basic skills are in place - hence the confusion.

It is a pity that the government didn't negotiate a suggested removal and replacement policy with OUP. After all a drug which is found to be detrimental to at least 20% of the population would be withdrawn. OUP have made millions from this scheme, and from government support. How can parents work their way through the minefield when the situation is so muddled?

"It is a pity that the government didn't negotiate a suggested removal and replacement policy with OUP. After all a drug which is found to be detrimental to at least 20% of the population would be withdrawn. OUP have made millions from this scheme, and from government support. How can parents work their way through the minefield when the situation is so muddled?"

I agree, and exactly the same situation is at work in France (where the phonics issue is just as pertinent as in the UK). In fact, I really think that this needs to go to a higher level. EU? IMVHO there is a "rights of the child" issue at stake.

I think Stanislas Dehaene ought to do a YouTube presentation about the importance of phonics. Maybe I shall email him

Sorry haven't read the whole thread

And hello to SGB

Can anyone recommend alternatives for a child who is getting going with reading? DD doesn't seem to mind the ORT ones so far but they seem to have a lot of words that you can't "sound out" which I don't get as surely that defeats the purpose... Anyway what are good alternatives that she could have a go at by herself? I had a quick look in the bookshop but they were all for older children rather than "first readers".

How old is your DD, SardineQueen, which class is she in and are the ORT books coming back from school?

The new ORT sounds and letters Floppy's phonics by Debbie Hepplewhite unlike their older relations are a good start to early reading skills, Songbirds, Phonics Bugs (free e books available on MN learning area) Project X phonics, Big Cat Phonics, Rag Tag Rhymes (Dr Seuss like) Dandelion readers, Follifoot farm books ...

She's 4 and in reception and on the first ORT 1+ level.

She keeps picking up books at home and trying to read them an I though it would be nice if she had a couple of books which were "hers" that she could read by herself.

The cat sat on the mat type stuff IYKWIM

Thanks Mrz big fat rat has gone down a treat!

Try the free e books at www.oxfordowl.co.uk too ...you can select phonics readers

decoding is the essential beginning to reading - of course I was not suggesting that reading is ONLY decoding. Just that without decoding there is no reading. I was hoping to refute the point that decoding is some kind of oppositional skill to meaningful reading.

Well if anyone does think ORT is awful you should try New Way.
Ds was getting on really well with ORT. Today he came home with Silly Parrot New Way parallel green book. It is dreadful. No punctuation so DS can't tell when something is being spoken. Pictures horrible ; no humour. Why has the teacher done this to us?

My son learnt with New Way (they were called Gay Way back then) and hated The Fat Pig!

oh god, Fat Pig!

When he brought the book home for the fifth week in a row and flung it stating "I hate the fat pig!" I didn't know if he meant it or his teacher.

Fat Pig's birthday sticks in my craw mind

This was when I was on my NQT year!

I hate biff, chip et al and ds is bored by them. But really unless books are about pirates, dinosaurs or space he's not that interested. He does love the dinosaur cove series though but he's not able to read them on his own yet.

I think more of the problem with books at our school is the lack of thought given by the teachers about which children get which books.

ahh the magic key began to glow. Just get off them asap and onto what you and the dc like

Biff and Chip have pirates, dinosaurs and space!

You haven't had the joy of Pirate Adventure, In the Garden or The Red Planet yet, have you?

But not all of them do - mostly we seem to get some inane story that is not interesting. Saying that Ds can home today with a book about pets which hasn't been like pulling my nails out while getting DS to read some of it.

Choufleur - "I think more of the problem with books at our school is the lack of thought given by the teachers about which children get which books." I know what you mean, but I do think that it is perhaps useful to ensure children learn to read books they aren't to their taste quite early on - a lot of school is about things that don't grab our imaginations.

Just ensure your DC have plenty of lovely books they enjoy for pleasure at home.