6 year old disciplined for messy handwritting

[badsi]

My 6 year old who is in Year 2 has been disciplined for having messy handwriting. She has been made to miss whole playtime to redo her handwriting. She came home upset that she got detention for this.
I have been to see the class teacher over this to express that I was unhappy at this and stressed that I found it a negative response. I asked why I was not involved with improving this through homework, to be told it was not needed as they were dealing with it.

My daughter is in all the top groups in the class so is clearly trying in lessons.
The teacher says that they have been writing in her books and telling her since September that her writing was messy.

I have been asked to come up with a better way of dealing with this than the way they have treated it. I suggested some form of positive help for her rather than negative responses and also suggested simple notes on homework on what needs improving.

Can anyone come up with a better way of improving this that I can suggest it to the school rather than detention?
I would be grateful for any help you can offer.... Thanks in advance

She needs to be on a handwriting intervention! Not punished :(

First of all you need to find out why her handwriting is messy.

Does she have:

• Fine motor skills problems?
• Gross motor skills problems?
• Visual perception problems?

If she has vision problems then she should be on Write From The Start

If she has motor skills problems she should be on Speed Up

She may also need a Move n Sit cushion, a writing slope, and Pencil Grip

An Occupational Therapist can test her for all of the above problems.

Handwriting Advice

Thank you so much for the response "IndigoBell" could you please advise me how I can get a Occupational Therapist to test her for any of these problems?

badsl, if they're punishing her for something she's struggling with but trying, that's awful and a lousy way to treat any child, let alone a 6 year old. But are you sure they weren't punishing her because she's got used to dashing through it or something? If they've been telling her to stop behaving a certain way since September and she's been ignoring them, that's very different to a child who's genuinely trying but can't do what they ask iyswim!

Am only saying that, as it sounds very similar to my son, who for ages rushed through his writing thinking so long as he finished it didn't matter what it looked like. Just before Christmas, his teacher sat him down with me and explained where he was going wrong in a v. positive way, so praised him that his writing was going really well, but then told him if he was going to progress, she needed him to slow down, concentrate on accuracy and letter formation, etc. She changed what activities he does in class to reinforce that and as he was part of the discussion he felt included and rather than feeling punished, he's understood and is coming on in leaps and bounds again. You could ask your teacher for a similar meeting maybe?

If you can afford it the easiest thing to do is to go private.

You can search for an OT here - or just do a lot of googling of your town and 'occupational therapist'

I think it's unlikely you'll be able to see an OT on the NHS unless there are significantly more concerns than just handwriting.

smee, I think it is a bit of both to be honest! The school are saying that she can do better and does do better when supervised by a teacher or assistant.
I do believe that she does rush things and try to get things done as quick as she can. This is in some way down to that fact that if a child does not finish their work in her class during class they have to stay in over playtime to finish it.
This is something I have noticed at home with my daughter that she rushes her writing to get it down and have tried to help her with this. I did not think there was a problem though as all her work the school had previously showed me or put on display had been very very neat.
I would love to be able to sit down with the teacher and my daughter and have a meeting along the lines you mention (as this seems perfect in her case) but the school tells me I do not need to be involved as they are dealing with it!!! Those exact words have come direct from the teacher and head who got involved with the meeting I had with the teacher (as she was invited in to the meeting by the teacher without asking me!)

IndigoBell, thanks again I will look into this x

It's more complicated than whether she can do it when she tries, or not.

My youngest son can do neat handwriting if you force him to. Normally he doesn't. And he can only do it for a very short period of time.

We've just taken him to a private OT and found out he has DCD (which is very similar to Dyspraxia).

School couldn't see any problems with him. We only could because we've been through all this before with my older son.

So while he can do neat handwriting it takes him an enormous amount of effort. (Which if you know what to watch for you can see.)

If she can do neat handwriting, but finds it significantly harder than everyone in the class, it can mean she has the physical problems I'm talking about.

Of course she may not.

badsi, that's ridiculous that they won't meet with you. Maybe you should go to the Head of Year/ Key stage/ even the Head Teacher and gently say that you think it would really help?

I think in Yr2 a lot have problems still with co-ordination, etc. My son's suddenly found writing a lot easier, but he's year 3. His school are pretty good at positive reinforcement and not pushing too soon. Do you think the dreaded Yr2 Sats and the teacher's need to hit targets might be behind all of this?

badsi

Although there may be a need for occupational therapy - and you should explore that. If it is just a lack of attention (or possibly stamina) there are a few things you can do at home.

My girls both went through stages of Y2 (DD2 currently in Y2 and still in this stage actually) of being labelled as having 'messy handwriting'. With DD1 it was further complicated by being left handed so smudging a lot of her work.

We work on it at home in several ways (partly because we have so little actual writing homework to do at home):

Encourage writing (post cards, thank you cards, invitations, little letters to friends, etc...) as much as you can. Try to get them to write more than Happy Birthday or Thank you. Encourage them to write a whole sentence thanking someone for a gift or wonderful day out.

Encourage practice. I bought both DDs grown up decorated diaries which they could use to practice their handwriting and signatures. DD1 absolutely filled this with a myriad of different writing styles and all that practice helped improve her pencil control I think. She certainly has settled into really lovely penmanship now (Y4).

Encourage labelling of pictures for people outside the family - I use the old trick - Oh Aunty X might not remember the story of Sleeping Beauty - best label the characters so she understands and maybe write a little about what you've drawn here.

Encourage drawing/ colouring in - all good for building hand/ arm strength. I highly recommend the Crayola twistables coloured pencils - and going for more tricky colouring books like geometric shapes (e.g. www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_13?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=geometric+colouring+book&sprefix=geometric+col%2Caps%2C139 - frankly also useful for travelling/ waiting for doctor or dentist/ etc...

For certain tasks - really insist on good penmanship - so for example writing out spelling words. Say they can have 5 minutes TV time for each line of words/ sentence using spelling words which is clearly written and letters are all at correct heights.

Finally - if the issue is the height of letters (and sorting that out) - try and locate some lined paper with a hatched line in the middle or try a workbook (like this www.amazon.co.uk/Collins-Easy-Learning-Handwriting-Practice/dp/0007301030/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327492284&sr=8-1-fkmr2. I often use a ruler and lightly pencil in the hatched half-way line to help control size of letters. Still losing the battle with height of 'w' for DD2 - but we just keep at it.

Also do remember that eventually they will get the hang of it. As some have posted there is a lot of co-ordination to learn. It isn't always instantly picked up.

Hang in there - keep practicing - but keep it short, sweet and sneaky!

Also do remember that eventually they will get the hang of it - please, please, please don't believe this.

Some kids don't eventually get the hang of it. Whatever you do do, don't wait for her to grow out of it.

Just to say I still remember vividly being kept at my desk during free play (never, ever got first dibs on the dressing up box)/ kept in at break to re-do work because of my lousy handwriting. It really sucks. And it still annoys me 40 years later that the teacher thought presentation was more important that content. It wasn't fine motor skills- I could draw very well, and still can. Suffice it to say I went on to do extremely well academically, though I still have lousy handwriting! But it might cheer your daughter up to know there are adults out there who remember going through what she's going through and that school did get better. And from your perspective keep an eye on her overall confidence, as a teacher over-reacting in this way can really mess your child up. What sorted things for me was moving from Scotland (very formal, conservative educational system at the time) to England (much more child-centred approach to education). It came as a huge surprise to me to find that the teachers in England thought I was intelligent. (Though I'd still follow up on the suggestions above about looking into aids to improving grip/seating/possible checks for dyspraxia).

Indigo

Come now. I'm sure you don't me to scare poor badsi by suggesting that it is impossible for her daughter to get the hang of penmanship. Dyspraxia/ DCD currently is believed to only affect 5 - 6% of population (although yes higher figures are sometimes quoted). So, odds are this won't be the case for badsi's child. Yes she may need occupational therapy (as you have suggested) but she also might simply need practice. Badsi herself has suggested that her DD does rush things and the school think she can do better - no they aren't handling it well (badsi see below) but I don't think we need label Badsi's DD with dyspraxia/ DCD just yet (that really needs to be assessed by a professional - and school SENCO).

Some schools (ours included) literally never have children write more than 1 paragraph in a day before Year 5. I know my DDs' Y4 class were screamed at by a teacher this year because it took them close to 2 hours to carry out a writing exercise (copy three opening paragraphs of a story and then write your own ending). I was shocked about the teacher yelling at them, but when I saw the work concerned I had to agree with the teacher that it was so little work it made no sense that it took so long.

badsi - I sincerely hope that whatever the problem is for your DD it can be solved. I agree with smee - if the class teacher has refused to see you I would ask to speak to whoever heads up the literacy team at the school or the head. You should quite specifically require an explanation of what the problem is and what the school are putting in place to help your daughter learn how or be assisted to produce writing of the required quality. As Indigo suggests this could be a sign there is an underlying problem - so you should be enquiring whether the school are also looking into that. You should also receive some guidance on what you can do at home to support the school.

I suspect part of this is gearing up for KS1 SATs - and the teacher may be pushing your DD to improve for them. (This can be a real issue also in terms of children achieving the expected level of progress - so the teacher may be feeling stressed about whether your DD will achieve a high enough score if things stay as they are). I don't think she's handling it particularly well - but I suspect your requesting a meeting higher up the chain will send her that message loud and clear.

Badsi

Just in case you haven't looked on the education pages here on Mumsnet Learning - do take a look at what you can do about handwriting here www.mumsnet.com/learning/literacy/helping-with-handwriting

I'm not at all suggesting it's impossible for her daughter to improve! I'm suggesting it won't improve by itself, and something needs to be done.

I never ever said I thought her kid had DCD. There is no reason to think she does have that.

It is far, far easier to improve handwriting at 6 or 7 then it is when the child is older. Being proactive is my message.

I don't mean to be ignorant, but I'm genuinely shocked that it's so important for a six year old to write neatly .

Ds1 is in year 2, and he's 5.5, I'm just pleased that he's actually making an effort with schoolwork at such a young age. I've been encouraging him to write smaller, and try and keep to the lines (he tends to run out of room ) But surely at such a young age schoolwork is still new to them, and they should be encouraged, not punished for the standard of their work.

Really, am I wrong?

DHs writing is spectacularly awful, it makes mine look legible. His teachers and his parents (unfortunately both English teachers) moaned a great deal.
It matters not one jot, the A level marker could read it, his Oxbridge collage tutors could read it (I can't).
He now writes complicated perfectly spelt and beautifully phrased reports as part of his job.
Tonight I may need his splendid turn of phrase to have a go at DD1s school.
Of course no one will have a problem reading what he's written because the computer has been invented

Why DHs writing quite so dreadful I have no idea, he is not dyspraxic (sp) in anyway.
He solders together the tiniest of electrical components, meant to be done only by machine.

Hi Losttheflickumdickumagain

I'm slightly confused by your DS1 only being 5.5 and being in Y2.

age 4/5 - YR
age 5/6 in Y1
age 6/7 in Y2

I'm speaking about England - so maybe things are different where you are?

I just randomly found this using a browser: www.stethelberts.slough.sch.uk/KS1%20SATs.htm
but it more or less explains the components of the English KS1 SATs which includes 2 writing tests.

Sorry, it's me. He's in class 2, but it is year 1 (would be much easier to be class 1, year 1). When I was at school it was much simpler (many moons ago ).

Can I just say thank you for all your comments it helps to just talk about it and hear other parents experiences and thoughts.
The Head of the school was invited into the meeting by the teacher without consulting me and does know about this. The head was just backing the teacher and saying the school is dealing with it.
I came on here for thoughts before I went back in to discuss it more with the head of the year.

losttheflickumdickumagain

Ok now that I understand your DS is in Y1 then yes - what you describe makes perfect sense and I don't think you need to review your parenting skills.

We just had OFSTED come to visit - and it was clear in the year preceding the inspection that 'presentation' was all the rage. The school were suddenly militant that all work was tidy, well presented and legible. DD1 could help with this - DD2 was something of a failure I fear, but she's still 6 and running before she can walk a bit, as she insists on joining up all her letters.

badsi - you hang in there. The school have raised and issue - they've punished your daughter for her behaviour/ poor penmanship - so the least they can do is explain more clearly what the problem is, what they're actually going to put in place to remedy the situation & provide some guidance on how you can help support this at home.

Just a quick reply before I do the school run - my DS is in Year 3. He has always found fine motor control hard, and handwriting was his weakest area at school. In Year 1, he was considered for the class "extra help group". Thankfully, we have a sensible school, who do not punish, but encourage, although I have seen the odd remark in his books along the lines of "good work, but why should I mark it when it is messy?".

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that improving gross motor skills at a young age helps fine motor control. He started tennis in Year 1.

Now, in Year 3, he has just been awarded his "pen licence" (and I understand he was in top third of his class to get it). He also now loves tennis, and plays at least twice a week.

Not a very scientific answer, I'm afraid, but might be worth a go.

Gosh, a bad attitude from the teacher. Punishing for this is just wrong!

I raised the issue of handwriting (actually letter formation) for my DD just before christmas and asked for support from her teacher. I proposed I would do extra work at home on it and the teacher agreed to reward/encourage her at school. I got her working most days in the christmas holidays (even posted to get support from you lot as a friend suggested I was mean mummy!).

Absolute rubbish that your help isn't needed. If she is getting punished then clearly she would benefit from more support.

We do 5 mins most days on handwriting alongside her reading. I bought a couple of workbooks (currently using one I got in tescos) but there is a wealth of good stuff on the internet to help you. I keep it to max 5 mins so it doesn't become too much of a chore.

I'm already seeing an improvement and its encouraging her to write more at school so all round it is benefiting.

My ds1 had real trouble with his handwriting being messy and also not writing enough when he was in yr 2-3, he was always in trouble for it, and yet had reading/comprehension/spelling levels above the expected levels. In the end I got him assessed by an OT (sorted this out myself, as school didnt bother!) and found he had fine motor skills problems, and his hands hurt whilst holding a normal pencil (also explained why he ate with fingers instead of holding knife and fork!).
He was issued with a writing slope, pencil grip, special seat cusion, as well as being given big handled eating utensils. Within weeks his writing improved, along with his self esteem and now, 3yrs on, he has some of the neatest writing in his class, and also the volume of each piece is above and beyond what is requested. Try to get your daughter assessed to see if she has a simular problem.

My DS (7) has similar problems, but we have never ever come across such a bad attitude from teachers. They recognise he has a problem and are trying to help. Punishment will just reinforce the problem and make your child not want to write :( Sad :( My DS misheard what a teacher said once and thought he would have to redo all his work if it was messy. He got so upset he refused to write at all. A talk with the teacher resolved this issue partially, but he still doesn't like to write (he says it hurts).

We have a referral for OT through NHS. I went to the GP first (suspecting dyspraxia) who referred to a Paediatrician. We were seen in 6 weeks. She referred on to OT (and physio), but we only got a pack of exercises to do at home and school. Also some stategies (like getting a slope ehich has been mentioned above). We have to do 2 terms of fine motor exercises and only get to see the OT if there is no change in 2 terms.

My DS also has eye tracking problems which may account for some of the messiness (diagnosed though a Behaviour Optometrist.