School run - a 'family flashpoint'! Any ideas?

[Solo2]

Every single morning and every single pick-up time, there's always a family row - either between me and one DT or the other - or between DTs. No matter how I organise things, there's always a rush to get there and no matter how I'm feeling at pick-up time, they're always grumpy and ready to start a fight.

Tried feeding them in the car, on the way home, in case they're hungry. DT1 won't eat bkfast but have also tried bringing his bkfast in the car on the way to school...sometimes he's/they're hungry and sometimes not.

I get up between 5.30am and 6am to get everything ready in time. DT2 wakes naturally in any case at 4.45am (reads in bed till 6am). DT2 has asperger's traits and various 'obsessions' and HAS to arrive at school before 8am. In any case, I also need to drop off then to do dog walk and start work on time afterwards. DT1 however, resents getting up early and no matter how much I do FOR him (they're 10yr old), so he only literally needs to shwer, dress and clean teeth, somehow he always delays and makes us 'late', causing anguish/anger in DT2 and frustration in me.

If we part without resolving the row, we all have a rotten day and I feel particularly guilty all day. However, it also feels as if nobody learns to do it differently and so it goes on.

Pick up time is fraught, as they're often tired but have at least an hrs homework do complete. So pretty quickly, rows ensue in the car on the journey home.

Has anyone else had this issue and how have you resolved it?

How far away is the school? Are the DTs Year 5 or 6? And finally what are your timings (ie when do they have to be there for, and picked up from)?

I guess what I would be exploring is whether there is a way to allow them to have their different timetables, especially as they may be very close to starting secondary school?

I find a timetable works with a checklist for each child to work through - for example 8 year old has to go down for breakfast, then brush teeth, then get dressed, then put pe kit, book bag and lunch box by the back door, then do spelling or maths sheet and only then can he put the TV on. He wants to have the TV on so tends to get on with the other stuff.

At the end of the school day if the DC kick off or are rude they lose some of their screen time, which has reduced a lot of the bickering that used to go on.

I'm afraid we only resolved this one when the 3 dcs walked to school by themselves....Ds1 now goes on the bus first thing (7.30)to his secondary (he is 11) and dd walks to school by herself (she is 9) . I still walk ds2 who has ASD to school but I'm hoping he will get the hang of it quite soon.

In the meantime I tried a variety of techniques to stop "flashpoint".

Distraction: singing songs on way to school (my parents used to use Radio 3 a lot in the car), Games, pretending they were characters in a film at the front door (they used to have fights on the doorsteps over who went in the door first)
Bribery: handing them a snack pack the minute they walked out the school gate - sandwich and carton of juice, cereal bar that sort of thing
Talking very very nicely to them when they came out of school - trying to GET IN THERE FIRST WITH THE GOOD VIBES so to speak...before they had a chance to start screaming at each other....

I'm afraid to say a lot of it for us was underlying family tensions which needed to be resolved, rather than just a school run issue - jealousy, tension about school, wanting my attention, my feeling of powerlessness and not having authority to get them to behave, tension about getting supper ready and supervising homework and them arguing... I had to work at enjoying their company after school and not feeling perpetual tension and anxiety at getting things wrong. We all had to just RELAX together a bit...

Don't beat yourself up too much, I think it is a problem commonly acknowledged that at pickup and drop off school children can be in a foul mood...I used to come home from drop off feeling like I'd fought a war.

Whatever you do, try not to part with criticism or reproaches, just say something positive. I make that my new goal to always part saying not Why have you not done xxxx or Where is your xxxx but Have a good day, well done for getting ready etc etc...

Just wanted to say one more thing.

If there is ALWAYS a row every single morning and every single pickup, they have got into a habit of thinking this is normal and expecting to communicate with you and each other like that. So you might have to do some radical re-thinking about the way you all communicate. Do you have to be there for 8 every morning or is that just what DT2 wants? Has dT2 set this time because he is worried that you are going to be late? Could you compromise on this so that some mornings you get in a little later and show dt2 that you will get there at the time you have agreed, in plenty of time but not quite so early. Seems like a lot of tension is caused by everyone just being thoroughly overtired/worrying.

If Dt1 is very tired when he wakes, you may need him to compromise on his bedtime and put him to bed earlier, but reward him in some way for the new routine, not just do it because it suits his brother and you. Maybe when he wakes earlier he gets the reward of you being a) very pleased with him b) nice leisurely chat at breakfast c) quick chance to go on the computer etc etc...

Get DT1 telt!!

ok, seriously, lol

If it suits you and DT2 to be at school for that time, DT1 just has to suck it up - I'd be rewarding/punishing him if he's the one making everyone else late. (rewarding him for getting ready better and punishing him for being obstructive obviously, because doing both at once would be a bit cruel)

oh, another tip we tried successfully with ds1 (7.30 to get on the bus was a very early start for him after primary) was to let him have a long hot bath the night before so we didn't have to harry him into shower first thing...Not every day of course, just we had it up our sleeve as a time saving device...We also tried to give the younger children their baths/showers the night before generally. Also getting bag ready the night before cut down a lot of arguments. Literally putting it in the hall and checking it for everythign the night before. You probably do this already

I wouldn't punish him for makign everyone late, becasue he is obviously doing it to get attention anyway...so that wouldn't help.

not punish him for making everyone late as such, but for example - it took you 15 minutes to get out of bed, you sat and did nothing for 10 minutes while you were supposed to be getting ready so you lose 25 minutes of tv/computer time/have to go to bed 25 minutes early...

I also do showers and baths at night, there's no way mine would have time in the morning

or you've wasted 25 minutes of my time, you now have to do 25 minutes extra of chores to make up for what I couldn't do

But, Solo, you know the reason they're always grumpy when you pick them up is because they hate school so much.

That's also the reason they don't want to go to school on time.

None of this will change while they're so unhappy.

Have you also got DT2 a dx of Aspergers? It will probably help you a lot. And him. And his brother.

indigo mine quite like school, I think most "younger" children are grumpy after school, it is just tiredness. it is how you deal wth tiredness that makes a difference to the grumpiness.
However, issues at school do, of course, make the school run a thousand times more difficult. I've had occasions where ds1 has had tantrum after tantrum after school - it is because he has had a bad day, feels pushed around etc. Ditto dd not wanting to go to school on occasion because she doesn't get on with someone, worried about classwork.
But I think, as Solo said, Dt2 is desperate to get to school on time. Which my dd is atm, which I take to be a good omen, rather than inditement of school.

oh I don't know but I'm in a similar situation in the mornings. Every day I'm up at 6am, even if the children are all breakfasted and dressed by 8am, there are still fights about tooth brushing, shoes and hair brushing when we need to leave, and I'm inevitably screeching at them at 8.40 when we need to leave at 8.30.

my 11 yo comes down at the last possible minute and looks a mess with matted hair and sometimes has to miss breakfast which I don't like because she just won't come down any earlier even if I go into her room at 7.30 and practically drag her out of bed.

Pick up time is ok for us as long as I take snacks and ignore the grumpy 11yo.

Swan - Solo has posted many times about her kids and their school.

By 11 you shouldn't be exhausted after school.

yes agree that it gets better when they have to take themselves. My ds1 used to be like this, but since he takes himself to school he is fine, manages to shower and get himself together all right.

He has an asd diagnosis too and I found that keeping the routine the same every day helps. I do have to make sure he leaves on time, but he usually does.

Thanks. Ladymuck, I really do need to drop them off by 8am to fit in my other committments prior to starting work. So there's not much 'give' there. If we leave any later than 7.30am, traffic becomes horrendous and then we're 'late', so 7.30am is the latest time to leave. They're in Yr 6 but we live too far from their school for them to make their own way there in the foreseeable future (no workable public transport either), so it'll be me driving them there and back for the foreseeable future.

They really have minimal to do, as I tend to do everything - especially for DT1 who is v disorganised, procrastinates and if left to do it himself, horrendous rows ensue and we're even later. All he has to do is shower, clean teeth and dress. They do tend to gravitate towards PCs first thing if they can but only have a few minutes anyway - if that (well DT2 has longer, as he's up earlier and much more self-organised and also always likes bkfast).

I do find that if I ask them anything at all about school, even what did you have for lunch, it really annoys them. So I try instead to to talk about general things, or tell them a bit about my day.

I know they both feel very angry if I appear to be stressed and are almost 'waiting' for me to act stressed, so they can then retaliate. So even if I'm feeling good, they have a way of provoking stress and so it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy that "we're always rowing/ always stressed".

I remember, as child, coming out of school and spending the whole car journey home chatting away to my mother about everything in minute detail! Mine won't tell me anything! Also, my mother didn't work outside the home and was married. She didn't do the morning school run as my father did. She had the whole day to keep up domestically and also do occasional things for herself. Whereas I hit the ground running at 5.30am and never stop!

Indigo I know Solo has posted about schools.

However, if you have a very busy school day and start early it is not surprising that you are tired after school. Ds1 certainly is even at 11! Dd is, and she doesn't even start early...She puts her heart and soul into school day, enjoys it, but she pretty well just wants to curl up and do nothing after school, and it is quite easy to set her off...Anyway it is that time of year isn't it?

I agree that there can be too much pressure and too many activities and too much homework. Ds certainly suffers from this at Secondary intermittently. He is currently at home in bed, having come down with a virus, which is I suspect is to do with him being thoroughly overtired.

But as regards the school run, despite this busy schedule, we haven't really had that much problem getting him off to school each morning so early,he seems quite keen to go because he likes school, and he likes the busyness. I suspect Solo your children do like school, but you just need to think out of the box regarding hometime, and balance of relaxing and being busy.

I wonder whether dt1 thinks this is "another example how dt2 always gets his own way" You telling him it suits you too, may not have any impact on him feeling this way because he may see it as you protecting dt2.

Not sure how you'd resolve that only perhaps do a deal with him, maybe he gets to school at dt2's time, but he then gets to chose something else?

Indigobell, DT2 LOVES school and is getting on v well there (except maths! - a different thread). DT1 is still having some struggles which I'm still looking into. Also, I don't actually know if this is also something about their age - pretteens but definitely signs of puberty beginning - both physically and emotionally! Both are moody and I'm not at all usuree how much that has to do with hormones, problems at school, my stressful life or even their underlying personalities and genetics.

Meanwhile, I'm looking for some practical solutions to make these 'flashpoints' easier. If I put ont he radio, BTW, DT2 gets incredibly upset (Asp traits makes it unbearable for him to have some kinds of background noise) and DT1 furiously opens the window, letting in cold air, until I put off the radio, as a way of manipulating me!!!

I do think some of this is also habit. We often talk about - "Let's NOT row at these times. Let's do it differently" and then someone will start something up and it all begins again!

Doesn't sound like he has ASD traits though, it sounds more like he has ASD.

Not being able to listen to the radio, having to get to school by a certain time, waking up very early........

Why do you say DT1 is 'manipulating' you. What an odd way of looking at it.

If neither boy likes the radio on, why on earth do you have it on?

At the end of day instead of asking what they did, who they played with etc, I have started asking who had the most exciting/interesting/unusual day, that has them fighting to tell me something that they did which proves their day was better than siblings. Cheers us all up, any issues tend to emerge later in evening. Mine are younger though.

indigo I suggested radio 3 as a distraction to Solo. re: background noise irritancy - I have a few ASD traits, and I find the radio on in the car can be unbearable if I'm concentrating....or the wrong station (Capital drives me bonkers and is ds1 favourite)
However, the right music is v relaxing. Ds2 cannot bear ds1 singing or humming but even he likes listening to music if it is his choice. CD player in car? Earphones for non-participant? Ipods?
I never ask ds1 about his day. I wait for him to talk. He talks at length when not prompted. I think it is a form of pressure to be asked specific questions.

I so agree with your perception of the "row" waiting to happen. I suppose in that situation you just have to chose something to take its place, and be on lookout for defusing it before it happens. In my case I find dd refusing to lay the table can trigger the most alarming scenes; I feel very very angry with her and myself, and I have to work very hard to step back and try and avoid the situation blowing out of proportion for the sake of the principle and my hurt emotions. And, the table is laid the following eve without the row if I get it right..but we have the same row if I get it wrong...I suppose the same scenes are played out when getting ready for school to some extent in a lot of homes.

Oh also it does sound as if dt2 gets his own way quite a bit over this issue, and although it might be easier for you, it may seem to dt1 that he never gets it his way. Is there any way that you could have a compromise friday, so if he is good the rest of the week then you leave 15min later or whatever time will still give enough time, then all walk the dogs after school. Even if he does have ASD traits he still has to learn to live and compromise with others as he will find grown up life and secondary school even harder. Dd2 has some traits but if we always give in it makes her and our lives harder.

Not much time left to post now but - IndigoBell, DT2 was assessed 3 or 4 times at a younger age for Asperger's and ended up with several traits but below the cut off for a full diagnosis. Sometimes it's actually easier to assume he HAS Asperger's and then take it from there.

Yes, this does mean that DT1 has often had to make 'allowances' all his life and I try v hard not to make this always the case and not to 'side' with DT2, even if something DT2 is doing is clearly not his fault.

I only ever put the radio on in the car, these days, to try to detach myself from an argument that's started. DT1 HATES me not engaging with his provocative remarks (you know the sort of thignwhere DCs feed back to you things you've said to them in a particularly irritating way, like, "Oh now YOU'RE getting angry aren't you? Aren't you? Yes you are, Mummy! You know I'm right, don't you?"

Anyway, I'm going to make a concerted effort today NOT to engage in a row! Dashing out to walk the dog again before pick up time (dragging DCs on dog walks has been a massive bone of contention and so i try to avoid having to take them too!)

Why not adjust all the timepieces in the house to be 15 minutes ahead and not tell the children :)

PushyDad, I used to do this when they were younger but now DT2 particularly checks the clock on his PC, his 2 watches etc etc and is too tuned in to fool anymore. I even tried changing his bedroom clock to enable him to wake later than 4.45am but he got wise to that too!

Anyway, good ideas and thoughts here and I'm really trying NOT to make DT1 always in the wrong, even when he is - as he has low self esteem.

Tonight was better as we were all really pleased to see each other, after the row this morning. It was only as we reached home that DT1 started to tease DT2 and on and off since but it's not as bad as other nights. I'm really going to do everything I can to make sure there's not a row tomorrow morning.

I think what helped tonight was that the DCs had to go to Late Stay after school whilst I was at a meeting with a teacher and then after picking them up we also went to the supermarket and I bought them some snacks for the car too (they always prefer, sadly, anything at all that ISN'T cooked/made by me!). Although we got home later, DT2 had already done his HW and DT doesn't have to hand his in till Monday. So it's been a more relaxed night generally. However, the usually HATE going anywhere after school and are much too tired to shop. So it may not work like this always.