Is it usual for primary school children to be taught that god created the world?

[strandednomore]

Dd1 is in Yr1 at our local primary school. It is a church of England school but very much our local, community school, walking distance to the house, where a lot of her friends and neighbours go etc.
She has come home from school today with information about what they will be doing this term. This includes "looking at god as the creator". I hadn't realised that "creationism" was being taught in schools. Ok if taught "some people believe..." but I fear it is being taught as the "truth" to a class of 6-yr-old sponges.
I will probably speak to her teacher about this but before I do does anyone know if this is normally taught in UK schools?
Thanks

Nailak, you're being staggeringly naive that home schooling is a simple choice for everyone.

The debate about faith schools is huge and divisive - and I'm firmly on the side of believing no schools should be run by one faith, but that's a separate thread.

OP, I would have a quiet word with the teacher and just check. If my DC came home telling me that this was truth I would keep repeating the "some people believe . . " line and then let it lie.

Makes me bloody at the lack of choice in this country about faith schools but there you go.

For what it's worth my children are in a state school and still come home saying they learnt the same things. But then I also hold dd1's reception teacher responsible for her unshakable belief in fairies after they found a letter from a fairy (a previously unknown being to dd). Am sure that juniors/secondary school will inject large doses of cynicism into her.

im not saying its a simple choice, it is swings and roundabouts, it is about priorities, and what you are prepared to compromise on.

if you care that much and feel that strongly then it is an option, i know many people who homeschool, one has 7 kids, and the reasons are because of the beliefs, celebrations etc in schools.

im not saying it is an easy decision or choice to make. I dont even know if i could do it myself succesfully, but if i felt that strongly i would.

i am saying there is always a choice.

and i agree about the some people believe, i use that a lot. but i also use it from the basis of what i believe is the truth, so i will say some people believe this but i believe this etc.

Stranded -

Don't be put off by all the people telling you you must accept whatever the church determines to teach your child, without giving any pushback, because you have had the temerity to send your child to your local school which the CoE retains it's historic power over.

There is no rule that says you can't go and talk to the school about a concern unless it is the most important concern ever, or unless you are willing to pull your child out of RE for 7 years or to homeschool.

To be honest I think these suggestions are so unrealistic they just amount to people telling you to "put up or shut up".

I am sure that there are others at the school who don't particularly want educators telling their children that god created the world and other religious beliefs as fact. Indeed there may be teachers who feel uncomfortable with this 'party line'. Unless people speak up the school will just assume that everyone thinks it's fine.

That said, as others have said don't assume that they are teaching that Adam and Eve were real people.

'God the creator' isn't creationism.
In the primary school they will look at lots of stories about how the world was created, there are some lovely ones e.g. aborigine. They are presented as stories.

Thank you very much for all your views, it is a very interesting discussion. Himilaya in particular, I totally agree with you. And Blu yes, that is the problem. It is not a "faith" school, it is our local, state-funded school. Of course I understand that religion should be taught at schools but it should be about ALL religions, why people believe in different things, what religion has meant in history and in the present day etc.

There is a.choice, homeschooling, or traveling further. It depends on your priorities. She would make new friends in a new school fgs. And I am not sure what would stop you being part of the community. - we only moved back to the UK at the end of 2010. She has moved school once already, she is very well settled here and has lots of friends. I would not consider moving her again. And things like after-school clubs, playdates etc just become so hard the further you are from the school.

I'm not sure where you think they would find out about faith if not at school, since you are not going to teach them? - I absolutely have no problem with the school teaching about faith and religion, in fact, given what is going on in this world, I think it as important as them learning about politics and economics. I just don't want their teacher telling them that any one faith or religion, or in fact having a faith or religion at all, is in any way better or preferable to another, especially when they are at such an impressiable age.

I will probably have a quiet word with her teacher (if I get a chance, we don't get to see them very much!) and take it from there.

exoticfruits - thanks, I hope that is the case.

Are they just looking at one creation story or many from around the world?

When DS1 comes with that sort of nonsense frrom school, I always tell him how lovely that his teacher made up such a nice story; it's not real,mjust a story.

I would have a quiet word with the teacher next week. I really don't think it what you think it is.

I don't think that saying God is the creator is the same as creationism. If you have Christian belief you believe that God created the world but many Christians find ways to reconcile that with evolution. Only certain Christians believe that the earth was created in 7 days and that evolution didn't happen. So saying god is the creator wouldn't bother me but proposing creationism as the way the world was actually formed would.

I say this as a committed atheist whose children go to a very, very Christian school and come home with all sorts of, ummm, interesting stuff about god. .

You will set yourself up as a daft parent if you contact the school with the assumption that they are teaching American-style creationism. I'm sure (not a member) the C of E believe in evolution, so why on earth would they be contradicting their own beliefs? Someone has suggested you withdraw your child from RE - well, if you don't think it's important for her to learn about Islam, Judaism etc and to reflect on racism, homophobia and human rights - then go ahead!

Our school is non denominational but the kids still come home with this nonsense occasionally. The girls (5 year olds!) were made to cover their heads with scarfs on the trip to the city central mosque so it's not just Cof E schools espousing medieval conceptions of the world.

We counteract this sort of thing at home. We talked about why only the girls had to cover their heads and whether this was fair. We talk about evolution and how creationist stories came about as ways to explain the world before science gave us more plausible explanations ( although the notion of intelligent design has always been questioned by philosophers)

my DCs went to a CofE primary
when they did creation stories we sent DS in with a book about the Viking version !
People on Mumsnet get FAR TOO het up about CofE Aided and Controlled schools IMHO (as an atheist)

We do 'creation stories' from different beliefs along the lines that 'some people believe that...'. We also teach about 'the big bang' and aspects of evolution (the fossil record). My school is not a church school though. I guess all faith schools have more emphasis on religious teachings though, it's what I would expect. As an atheist I prefer to teach in a school without any obvious religious teachings or leanings, although of course we discuss morals and teach an RE curriculum about different beliefs, places of worship etc. Some of my colleagues are religious but most are not.

Some religious groups in my school opt out of different aspects such as the Muslim pupils at Christmas and Easter celebrations, and most Jehovah's witnesses do not take part in any RE lessons. If you ask the school I'm sure you are entitled to withdraw them from the lessons.

It was easy for me with the DC though as I live in a city with a wide choice of local primary schools. My youngest has Christian beliefs at the moment but my older two are atheists and have been for many years, my DH is Catholic. I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you, children will make up their own minds as they get older. I agree with talkinpeace2 not worth getting het up about, it can make things seem bigger and more important than they need to be.

Thanks again everyone. I don't want to get too het up about it, but it just seems so wrong that schools are allowed to teach something which I believe to be fundamentally untrue. Perhaps the best thing to do with my frustration is campaign with the secular society rather than get too upset about what my children are being taught as there doesn't seem to be much I can do about it (I could withdraw her from RE but I think at primary school it's all pretty tied up with learning about ethics and morals, as well as - hopefully! - other religions) and of course I think this is important.

I agree that not all CoE schools are the same, ours is quite "tame".

My children at CoE school have just come home knowing all about the "big bang" and evolution theories - so I guess it is down to the individual schools.

I would object them being taught creationism, especially if, like us, the CoE is the ONLY local school, so not the case of choosing a faith school over other local schools and therefore accepting that sort of teaching as the norm.

Homeschooling not an option, other schools not an option and even the private schools have a Christian ethos - so not much you can do about that.

Having said all that, you can easily "unteach it", I have told my children that I don't believe in God and that many people don't and that's ok, that people believe in different Gods and that in my opinion Heaven and Hell are make believe places, and they understand that without any issue.

DD is not at a C of E. She has been taught that the bible says God created the world. I understand they've also looked at the Hindu views on creation as well as talking about basic evolution and the big bang. She's only year 1 so they've not gone into much detail on any of them but she knows that there is more than one idea about how we came to be.

Stranded I don't get what you're going to be campaigning about - have you established that they are teaching actual creationism? It seems highly unlikely. You can hardly object to teaching along the lines of "in the c of e we believe God created the world" can you?

stranded
your problem is actually that the school is widening your child's views more than you would like
the more strident you are about your atheism, the more likely your child is to wonder what the fuss is about and turn into a god botherer
chillax

I absolutely object to being told that "the school is widening your child's views more than you would like". On the contarary, I would like them to widen it as much as possible by taking them to mosques as well as churchs, having Buddhists and humanists in to talk to them, getting someone in to talk about the aboriginal beliefs (that would really be interesting for them) etc. I try my best to widen my children's minds on every occasion I possibly can - they are widely travelled and I intend to carry on with that as much as finances allow.
iggi I would campaign along the lines of the secular society - to separate religion from state funded education, as they do in (I believe!) France. Funnily enough, we lived in an extremely religious (Christian) country before coming home but not once did dd1 come home from school talking about god or jesus. It has been quite a shock for us, entering the UK education system.

stranded
if they are a cof aided or controlled they WILL
but they do each faith in turn - linked back to Christianity - which of course paid for their buildings in the first place

the UK is one of the few countries that has compulsory RE in school
and the highest levels of secularism
go figure

For a CoE school not to talk about God the creator would be wrong.Creationism is not the same thing at all-that is blind acceptance of the 7 day story.Evolution does not exclude Christianity and vice versa.The key words are 'In the beginning...' what and when 'the beginning' is/was is way beyond our understanding.Of course some people believe that suddenly there was a Big Bang-err why? What exploded?Where did matter come from?Was there ever nothing at all?If not where did 'something ' come from and how did 'something' become everything?I havent a clue or to put it another way 'God only knows'
I am agnostic leaning towards Christianity [I think].

at teaching god created the world is widening a child's view!

stranded, do you now the BHA are running a campaign for the separation of faith and education?

It seems wrong that schools teach something YOU believe to be fundementaly untrue? I'm not quite sure I get that.

You want secularism in schools like in France where children are forced to do.things that they fundementaly believe they shouldn't do, like not.wear headscarf as a child, or as a parent whilst on school property/ accompanying school outings etc.

In France I wouldn't be able.to be a.school governor because of secularism.

I fail understand why you think what a schools teachings should be based on YOUR beliefs!