school appeal help needed

[wzh]

hello everyone, ive just moved to the woosehill area. i have a 4 year old and hes on the waiting list for hawthorns primary. now we have made an appeal to the school admissions and our date is next week.
can some one advice me on how to handle appeals and deal convincingly.
our stance on the appeal is that we moved to u.k for best education for our son. and also moved from reading to wokingham for the same reason also my husband is commuting four hours everyday just so tht we could give our son best education.
can some one help.

Having looked at the school website the PAN (published admissions number) appears to be 60, and as you are havingto appeal the year group must be full.

A PAN of 60 will almost definitely mean it is an "Infant Class Size" appeal - by law classes in YR, Y1 & Y2 can have no more than 30 children per teacher.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the fact that it is an ICS appeal means that you will almost definitely be unsuccessful (I say almost as you will occasionally get a panel who will admit regardless, but it is rare) as you would have to show that a mistake had been made which denied you a place or the decision not to admit was "perverse" - that will be very difficult to do as an in-year application.

What school have the LA allocated to you? How far away is it? The only way I can think that you might make any headway is if the allocated school is a very long way away, so you could argue that it was not suitable on that basis.

Arguments about the allocated school being "worse" or slightly further away won't cut any ice with the panel.

Where are you on the waiting list? How much movement is that generally? You might find that you don't have to wait too long to get a place via the waiting list if you are close to the top.

Hawthorns Primary means the school has an admission number of 60. That means your appeal will almost certainly be an infant class size case. Under the rules, you should only be able to win if you can show that a mistake has been made. As you have only recently moved I am assuming yours was an in year application, in which case a mistake is unlikely.

It is still worth appealing. It is not unknown for appeal panels to award a place even when the rules say they shouldn't. But you need to be realistic about your chances of success.

You should make the best case you can as to why this is the right school for your son. Don't be negative about the allocated school but be as positive as you can about Hawthorns. In particular, look for any features Hawthorns has which are missing from the allocated school and explain why those will be of benefit to your son. Don't talk about Ofsted reports or league tables, though, as that won't help your case.

By the way, you haven't mentioned the allocated school. I presume Wokingham offered you a place somewhere?

Cross posted with Betsy! (And apologies for my first sentence - should have said "Hawthorns Primary has an admission number of 60.")

we must stop meeting like this!

Thank you guys for the advice. My son is going to winnersh at the moment. I was just wondering if my case could be a higher priority case as in I also have a 5month old and I actually have to keep him hungry while I'm on the school run in the morning as i bf him and also keep him in a soiled diaper most of the days as we would run late if I do all that .... And my son is number 4 on the waiting...we will save an hour if my son goes to hawthorn ....

I'm afraid this won't help you win your case. This is not the kind of thing that will persuade an appeal panel to admit your son. You are simply expected to organise your life so that your baby gets fed and changed in the morning and your son gets to school.

Your son's position on the waiting list is also not relevant to the appeal.

By the way, if you live more than 2 miles from Winnersh Primary by the shortest walking route your son is entitled to free transport to and from school.

My life is as organised as it could get! Sadly babies don't understand that.
Plus Betty's just asked what number he was on the waiting list that's why I mentioned I know it's not going to make difference on the appeal.
Lastly what are the factors that do have an effect on the appeal???

Why can't you change his nappy before you leave?
Sounds like you need to get up earlier! That's your issue not the education authority's issue
Same as your dhs commute etc in your opening post is your life choices , nothing to do with the school

I find it helps if you try to see it from the LEAs/panels pov.

Their remit is to be equally fair to all children, which may mean giving priority to children with special social and medical needs to ensure a level playing field; it will also mean not admitting extra children unless there are very serious considerations as that would disadvantage the children already at the school. So all the time they are looking at the needs of the children, not the parents. And with a primary school appeal in particular, they have to be very careful about the bit about not disadvantaging the children already at the school: this is what the PAN thing is all about.

Special considerations can be things like a disabiled child needing a school with disabled access, a child in foster care needing to get into the school which is not in the same road as the house of his abusive mother, a child with a terminally ill parent needing to get into the one school that has a specialist bereavement counsellor. All these needs have to be proved by external evidence from professionals: it is not enough just to say that you have these needs.

The problem with your arguments is that they are all about your convenience- and tbh they would be difficult to prove. If they really wanted to get into one particular school, most parents could probably come up with something similar, something they just had to do at that particular time, and how would you decide between them? Many, many parents are in similar sitautions to you, in that they have to deal with another child (feeding, taking a sibling to a different school etc) at the time of the school run. We dealt with it by getting a childminder to take one dc, others deal with it by involving friends or organising a school run rota.

Anyway, it is a very temporary situation: your baby's feeding routine will change many times over the next year or so, so it's hardly enough for the panel to make a decision that will affect the whole schooling experience of the children involved.

From the panel's pov they are looking at how they can be as fair to little Johnnie and Kylie as possible, not to Johnnie's and Kylie's mum and dad.

As this is an infant class size appeal they only question the panel should consider is whether or not the LA made a mistake in refusing to admit your child. For an in year application that is highly unlikely.

If you don't have any evidence of a mistake you should look at ways in which Hawthorns will be better for your son than the allocated school. For example, if he is good at music and Hawthorns has a lot of musical activities that is worth raising. As Cory indicates, it must be about what is best for your son. Child care arrangements, transport difficulties and the like are of no interest to the panel.

I'm afraid you are probably going to lose your appeal. Almost all infant class size appeals for in year admissions are unsuccessful. However, you may strike it lucky and get a sympathetic panel who will be willing to break the rules and admit your son.

Don't know anything about appeals. But I breastfed my child while on the school run for another by using a sling and feeding while I walked. Would that help you? I don't understand the diaper bit, why can't you change the babies nappy?

Good grief, you say you want best education for your child, doesn't everyone? why would you get a place because of that.
You need to be more organised reference the baby. top it up with booby juice before you leave and change nappy. there are many, many people who have to juggle a baby and other school age children

Seriously, OP? In the mornings here, I will be BF'ing my 11mo DS3, whilst doing up my SN 13yo DD's shirt buttons, then brushing my SN 8yo DS2's teeth, while telling my 9yo DS1 to make sure his homework is in his bag. My 11mo DS3 would never leave the house for the school run without a clean nappy, a BF and his breakfast. . Surely you just have to get up earlier when you have more than one dc? My 'get-up' time has crept from 7.30 am with one school-age and one baby, to 6.30am now that I have 4 dc, 3 of them school-age, 2 of those with SN that can't manage all the 'everyday' tasks like buttoning shirts and teeth brushing without my help, ALL while BF'ing a baby. Get organised the night before, and get up earlier, Woman! And I am a Lone Parent, who has a BUS to catch to do the school run, and I have to be ON the bus at 8.15am!

The reasons you have stated for appeal will get you nowhere I'm afraid. PRH, Betsy and Cory have given you excellent advice - unless you can prove there has been an error in the admissions process, you are extremely unlikely to win your appeal.

Alas, I also have to agree with Huntycat and the other posters who have said you cannot possibly be organised on a morning. I have a 4yo DD and an 8mo bf DS and do everything you do on a morning and probably more. We live in the middle of nowhere and I have to get all of us out of the house at 6am to drop DH off to work (34 mile round trip), I then have to get DD and DS ready so I can put DD on the school bus at 7:45am. DH gets up at 5am and gets himself, his lunch and breakfast ready (and brings me a cup of coffee, bless him) and I get up at 5:30am - it's crap, but it's what we have to do to be ready on time and ensure that everyone is fed, clean and dressed.

Huntycat, wow I take my hat off to you - I thought we packed a lot into a morning, but you do so, so much more!

You also have to show that the prejudice to your son by not going there is greater than the prejudice to the school by taking him. It will have nothing to do with you, or your other child I'm afraid. If you have a place in another school and no good reason (in the eyes of the appeal panel) to change, then they will not offer you a place.

Sorry (been through appeal panels myself for my DD)

Also, don't bring this up as a part of the appeal:

"our stance on the appeal is that we moved to u.k for best education for our son. and also moved from reading to wokingham for the same reason also my husband is commuting four hours everyday just so tht we could give our son best education"

There is simply no way a panel, looking at it solely from the child's pov will think your son deserves a better education than another child simply because he has parents who are fortunate enough to be able to do this.

Every child in the borough deserves the best education possible as much as every other child. This does not mean that it is possible to admit every child in the borough to the best school, and if they tried that the best school would not remain the best school.

Excellent advice as usual from those with specialist knowledge.

OP I think that you are going to have to re-organise your morning routine to fit the needs of your children as opposed to expecting a school to accomodate your (temporary) need to feed your baby at a particular time

Im not experienced as many others on here, although I have been through a school appeal myself,but for a different reason. Could I suggest from anyone more experienced, if they could possibly give the OP any examples to add in the appeal, that could help win the appeal.

Thank you so much for all the critical analysis and advice. Number one the nappy incidence was just once. As I'm still getting used to the routine of a full time school secondly I do wake up earlier at 6:30. But my son needs assistance with everything he is a first born secondly I don't let him go hungry if he can't. Have his breakfast. And I do get everything ready the night before even fill up his water bottle.
Coccyx= I used to think like that too. But trust me the number of parents who are more than satisfied sending their children to a grade 4 school is amazing. When and if people want their child to get good education they do sacrifice a lot. And I don't see why that shouldn't matter.
Of course our appeal was not going to be as informal for gods sake it's an appeal panel not a website for general discussion.
Lastly the appeal is not for the parents conviniance at all.... Tht is a BIG misunderstanding. Don't u think it's stressfull for the kids to travel tht much. And we have gone through a lot for our children and non of it is for our convenience. That really hurt.
I really needed advice on how to handle the appeal rather a critical analysis of my routine but thank you very much. We have decided to call off the appeal.

we've just moved house for schools, but before moving we made absolutely sure that we would be very likely to get a school in the area we moved to. why would you move countries without checking you can get in the school? its all a bit confusing? why should you get priority for moving over over people already in the area?

whz why not stay on the waiting list and see how you get on? There may be movement especially over the summer and others higher up the waiting list may turn down the spaces if they are happy and settled at the allocated school.

"Coccyx= I used to think like that too. But trust me the number of parents who are more than satisfied sending their children to a grade 4 school is amazing. When and if people want their child to get good education they do sacrifice a lot. And I don't see why that shouldn't matter."

The reason the admissions people/panel can't take this into account is that they have to look at it from the child's pov. The fact that your ds is fortunate enough to have parents who care about his education doesn't make him more deserving or more in need of a good school than some poor child whose parents don't care. They both deserve a chance but there aren''t enough places.

So the admissions have to stick strictly to the criteria set out for that particular authority. And once a school is full exceptions can only be made in truly exceptional cases- otherwise it will disadvantage the children already admitted.

We are just trying to point out to you which of your arguments won't go down well with the panel and may actually damage your case.

I would do as Hooever suggests and stay on the waiting list. No 4 doesn't seem all that bad to me.

Good luck with the appeal if you do decide to go with it. I'm afraid that I can't think of anything that can influence an ICS appeal other than a statement which names that school. We lost our appeal even with a sibling at the school. If you do go to the appeal then my advice is not to do it on your own (I did) as it's really emmotional and I left the room at the end and then rather embarrassingly burst into tears!

wzh,
I would definitely stay on the waiting list because if there is any movement then the likelihood is that some of those that are 1 to 3 on list will not bother to move their child now they have settled at another school.
I think you have been given honest advice by others on the chance of success at an appeal. Whilst i don't suppose it is of any comfort to you, to those who sit on appeal panels the Infant Size Class regs are also very very annoying because there are cases where as a panel you desperately want to admit but the legal rules say we cannot.