Yr 6 boy's handwriting

[moscow]

Would be grateful for any advice please. Our Y6 boy has pretty terrible scruffy handwriting, and says he 'doesn't care' about improving it, the teachers can read it etc etc. In everything else, he is very strong, including grammar. I know scruffy handwriting isn't an unusual thing for some boys, and mine is pretty bad : ), but the issue here is not just that his writing is scruffy, it's that he doesn't see the need to make sure tall letters are actually tall, long letters are actually long, that capital letters are actually the right size to look like capitals etc. His reason is that he would rather do it all on the computer, adults work on computers all the time and barely have to handwrite anything etc (and he does have a point there), but we are stressing to him over and over again that this is important, but he just doesn't care. I say to him that he has only two terms left at primary and that the teachers at secondary won't accept it and will keep him in and so on.. trouble is, I am not convinced they will. I know the answer is to get him to care enough himself......Help please, any ideas?

DSs teacher rips up his work if it's not good enough. It's been very effective :)

Ooooh that's brutal! But I can see why it might be effective... I did rip up thank you notes for Xmas presents that I felt looked so awful he may as well not have bothered, and made him do them again..hateful mother : ) His teacher says he's going to make him do work again, and again if need be, until it's of a standard that is expected...I wish they had been that already to be honest. I've always known handwriting is not his strong point but his teacher last year said not to worry about it, that it wasn't that important in the great scheme of things. I tend to agree, except this is down to sheer laziness and a total reluctance on DS's part to even make an effort, which I will not stand for. Just don't know how to get him to care about it himself?!

I'm having a big push on handwriting with my ds (who is 7, so younger than yours). I'm afraid I'm being pretty hardline about it and saying that he has to do handwriting pratice (from those very boing books) before he gets to go out and play / play on the Wii etc. We're doing 3 handwriting sessions a week after school, of about 20 mins each.

It might not be seen as that important in schools but ultimately, exams will be handwritten, so legible writing should be one of the key skills learnt at an early stage (IMO). And depending on what job he ends up doing, he might need to do a fair amount of handwriting. Hope you can inspire / cajole him!

but ultimately, exams will be handwritten - not if his handwriting is atrocious, school can get him a scribe of a laptop - hence some schools not being overly concerned about teaching it........

Could someone recommend a handwriting book, please? My ds is in year 9 but his writing is beyond awful. I have looked on Amazon but can't find anything suited to the older child who needs remedial handwriting help, rather than instruction in how to write in the first place.

Thanks v much

This is a good practice book for an older child: Cursive Writing Practice: Inspiring Quotes

I bought some software so I could print off as many sheets as I needed (can't remember name of sw right now :) )

Loads of websites let you make your own handwriting sheets.....

Thanks for all the advice, we are going to crack this!!

Indigo, is that really true? Wouldn't there need to be a diagnosis of dyspraxia to justify the cost of a scribe / laptop(in state schools, anyway)?

you don't need a diagnosis to apply for a scribe/use of laptop in exams just prove that the child regularly uses one in normal lessons.

But it's still a funding issue then, isn't it? I just can't see the justification in paying for a child to have a laptop in lessons / exams simply because they're not very good at handwriting. Is that because handwriting is not seen as a skill in itself, but as the means to a skill (and therefore one that may be replaced by a more efficient means to the same end)?

It costs nothing for a scribe (usually a member of the support staff or even the head) and most schools have laptops.

A scribe is a writing assistant who writes out answers dictated by the child. Schools should consider using a word processor or transcription before deciding to use a scribe. A scribe should only be used if other options are not appropriate and the child uses a scribe as part of normal classroom practice. Schools must have evidence to show resources are routinely committed to providing this support (except in the case of unforeseen injuries).
www.education.gov.uk/schools/teachingandlearning/assessment/keystage2/ks2tests/a00201269/use-of-a-scribe

Yup, I know all that - but why? Is it that handwriting is not seen as a skill to learn? Or an advantageous but non-essential one?

You just have to read MN to see parents views www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1336565-Can-I-insist-that-my-DS-does-not-do-cursive-or-joined-up-handwriting

We have a high standard of handwriting and see it as an important skill but it varies from school to school and even teacher to teacher if the school doesn't have a policy.

Hmm...to me it sounds a bit like saying 'well, you're not very good at Maths are you, so we'll let you take a calculator into the mental arithmatic test' or 'Ooh, you're not very good at French, so we'd better get you a dictionary for your exam...'

Let's hope that none of the children who go to schools that don't bother with handwriting want to go to university...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1357328-Can-someone-in-the-know-please-explain-the-point-of-Cursive-Script-to-me

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1041310-Cursive-writing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1149773-Cursive-writing-from-reception

Holo - I agree with you.

This is a thread I had about it a while ago:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1186767-Readers-Writers-and-Extra-Time-in-SATs-exams-are-BAD-for-the-kids

With a lot of persistence, and a bit of private OT, I did manage to get school to teach DS to write - but I think if I hadn't been so 'proactive' about it that school wouldn't have bothered.....

In KS2 my school has one handwriting lesson a week.

My DC are in the very early years of school. An older (maybe year 5?) child recently left the same school for another, and I was asking her mother how the change had gone. Apparently child doing very well but was being marked down for handwriting; turns out new school expected cursive, old school had never taught it.

I like the school, and would definitely not move my kids over handwriting, but I have been wondering whether I ought at some stage to do something at home to help them acquire this skill - any input welcome!

DD1 has fairly horrible writing, but now (in Yr6) she has a 'draft' book and a 'best' book for English - she gets to draft out her ideas in any writing so that she can focus on content and then has to put it in her 'best' book for marking. The focus on presentation this has brought in has really improved her writing, to the point where even her drafting is much nicer. It's actually prettier than mine now, and I get complimented on how near my writing is (though it's pretty cursive and spiky to my own eyes).

And it seems to have boosted DD's confidence too.

Thanks, IndigoBell, for that book suggestion; I shall order it.

Ds, 13, was not taught to write at school, and it shows. Dd, who is 8, has beautiful handwriting - a new regime had been introduced by the time she started school and writing lessons are very much on the menu. Actually it was Ofsted who picked up on it and the school got a pasting for the standard of its pupils' writing.

I can't believe those threads where people are complaining about their dcs having to learn cursive writing. Unfathomable. My ds has two left feet, two left hands, can't catch or kick a ball... etc etc, BUT that's no excuse not to make the effort.

Handwriting is an important skill but, I think, when children get to a certain age (whatever that might be!) and they are still struggling with fine motor control, to write clearly, easily and fast enough, then other options should be investigated.

We have persevered for years to improve ds' (yr5) writing. It is so poor, that it is affecting the quality of his written work. He finds writing such an effort that he cannot concentrate on that and plan what he is wanting to write.

The trouble we have now is, although school have recommended he use a laptop, his touchtyping is not yet fast enough for him to use during lessons. I am hoping he will get there in time for his 11+ next year but it will be tight!

If he has fine motor skills problems, then it is likely he will struggle with touchtyping as well as with handwriting....

HolofernesesHead : From what my son's school is saying a diagnosis is required for extra accommodation like extra time or use of a laptop or scribe.

I agree with what is being said here these are crutches which must be judiciously used.

School is telling me our son never needs to learn to write. We dont agree at all.

Well, I suppose my problem with the 'don't worry, we'll get you a lap top' approach is that I don't see that it's going to serve dc well when it comes to university / adult life. Even people who don't use handwriting often in their daily work (e.g. doctors) have to do professional exams to get qualified, so to give up on it at a very early age seems to either shut down future possibilities, or make them much harder.

There's also the funding issue: yes, the 'scribe' is a TA who is already emlpoyed by the school. But that person's time = money, and I'd hope that the school would use tax payers' money well on dc who really need extra help.

I'm not talking about turning 8 y o s into calligraphers, just teaching them how to write legibly. My ds's handwriting would seriously impede his ability to do well in exams (the markers wouldn't be able to read the scripts) but the answer is not to give him a laptop, it's to teach him to write, which is why I'm putting so much time into it. Think of all the other things you have to learn as a child...why should writing be any different?

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/3217256/Pupils-with-poor-handwriting-do-less-well-in-school-tests.html