As a teacher age and experience are no longer seen as economically viable!

[Glama]

I am a primary teacher of 23 years experience, both in state and independent schools in the Uk and recently an Independent school in China. I have taught from Nursery to year 6, and have lectured part time at a North West University for 4 years.

On returning from China, and applying for UK jobs, I find that the term
" overqualified for the position" constantly crops up. On further investigation into the supply market, I find that due to economic restraints put on LEAs by the current government, schools are employing newly qualified teachers in the morning, they cost less than a more qualified teacher, and in the afternoon, splitting classes or putting in a classroom assistant to " supervise" them. The position is the same when applying for permanent jobs, few of which are currently advertised on TES, the teachers job site. It saddens me to see all my qualifications including SEN and EAL, not being utilised, purely due to economic restraints. Is this sour grapes on my behalf? No, I have had my opinion confirmed by two careers advisers, one of whom works with the Department of work and pensions, and privately by two local authority headteachers, who are friends. I am not the only highly qualified teacher in this position, sadly I now know at least 4 others, who like me feel they are at the top of their game and have their best teaching and learning years ahead of them, however, because our qualifications and experience equals a slightly higher rate of pay, we are unlikely to be employed in order to pass on our teaching expertise. Instead, we have been advised to retrain! I will if I have to, but what a waste of 23 years experience doing a job I love and am excellent at.

Still I hear that a certain poLe dancing bar in Blackpool is looking for "over 50s" dancers, I wonder if my hips will cope with that retraining programme?

So to summarise for all NQTs, the advice and situation currently presenting itself in the UK education system would be:
Don't bother gaining a MA, PHD, SENCO, EAL or extra language qualification, above all do not broaden your life experience by teaching in a British International school abroad, moreover do not get to 50+ and expect to pass on all your experiences to the next generation of teachers and children, after all you could carry on as a teacher and in a few years apply for headship when they scrap the NQPH!

Yup.

You're thinking: 'With my experience abroad, I could be an invaluable mentor'

They are thinking: 'Uh oh. She's been out of the loop for a bit; she'll need mentoring. Who could we dump that on? Katie, maybe, she's finished her NQT year now & she'll be looking to build her CV a bit. '

You could try Supply with a view to being talent spotted, but tbh now cover supervisors are used so extensively even that's a fairly forlorn hope.

Yes you CAN do all of those things BUT throughout all of it you HAVE to have a very firm handle on where your next job is coming from...and you have to acquire all those things without getting a sense of entitlement. Instead you need the knowledge that you will have to show how all those things make you a better teacher and worth your high pay.

If you had all of the above BUT had remained in the UK education system and in a school who knew and valued you then you would be OK (though your opportunities to MOVE jobs would be relatively limted unless you moved off the higher classroom grades and onto lower (cheaper) leadership grades).

It is the move abroad without a guaranteed return that is, I am afraid, the problem. Your position is similar to that of the poster above who says that if she left her management role in a different sector and went abroad without a guaranteed ticket home it would be hard for her to find a job.

I appreciate that it may seem to you that it is your age and experience not being valued when you are rejected. Is it possible that, in the 150 - 200+ applications for the jobs you are applying for, there are others which are simply a better fit on each occasion (or that you are being rejected for trivial reasons like lack of a targeted covering letter, not visiting the schools or even imperfect grammar?)? That is why you have to find those few roles for which you are a uniquely good fit, not the 'general' ones for which someone with fewer qualifications on paper but perhaps more relevant and recent experience would be an equally good or better fit?

You are not over qualified, they would love your experience, but they can't afford to pay for it. It comes down to money and budgets-it always does.

Have you thought about applying to further education colleges or even some HE? With new rules on no of non uk students these places are allowed to take in and lots of language problems encountered, your experience may come in useful. And they can pay.

as people cost more and get more experienced they're expected to move up the ladder to justify that expense and be taking on a lot more - not to be getting the big salary for doing the same job as they did 15 years ago for a job that someone else could do for half the price.

so really you are overqualified and over expensive for the roles you are applying for and should be applying for more senior roles with more responsibility to justify that expense. it would be the same in any field actually. it only works otherwise if you stay in the same post for 20years so that your pay keeps going up despite not taking on anything extra officially (which doesn't happen in other jobs).

i have a family member looking for work as her own business has not worked out. she has excellent qualifications, experience and skills. the salary she was on before just doesn't exist so she lowered it and the agencies still laughed at her so she'd be looking at going back to work for 15-20k less than she was earning in her last role and in reality those posts she probably wouldn't get as they will say she is over qualified. it's the same for everyone.

there isn't the job that matches her skills and experience level. classroom teacher no longer matches your skills, experience and pay level. more senior posts are rarer, this is normal. she left her secure well paid job to go out on her own and took the risk of running her own business, you left a secure post to go work overseas and you are both having similar problems in timing and job market.

i think you need to face that your payscale level cannot be justified for a classroom teacher post and to earn that you will need significant responsibility posts. the fixed salary business does make that tricky doesn't it - never thought about it in this context before.

^So to summarise for all NQTs, the advice and situation currently presenting itself in the UK education system would be:
Don't bother gaining a MA, PHD, SENCO, EAL or extra language qualification, above all do not broaden your life experience by teaching in a British International school abroad^,

Not quite Glama

the MA, PHD, SENCO, EAL and extra language qualification don't make you more expensive ... the problem is once you reach the top of the pay scale you are expensive and leaving a position to go abroad for a few years means you are then competing against cheaper alternatives in the job market when you return.

I've only read the first few comments but I'm an NQT and have been told I don't have enough experience and the roles have gone to teachers with one of two years experience so cheaper but not needing the 10% timetable reduction or mentor time. Alot of the people on my course are finding the same.

I would agree with that ...

'leaving a position to go abroad for a few years means you are then competing against cheaper alternatives in the job market when you return.'

With more up-to-date knowledge about current initiatives and assessment requirements. Many SMTs also prefer NQTs or those in the early stages of their teaching career as they feel that they are more malleable open to adopting new initiatives without informed dissent. Or dissent of any kind.
Me boss, you drone. Comply.

^So to summarise for all NQTs, the advice and situation currently presenting itself in the UK education system would be:
Don't bother gaining a MA, PHD, SENCO, EAL or extra language qualification, above all do not broaden your life experience by teaching in a British International school abroad^

nope. but be aware that like in any other field if you invest in further training you will need to make an assessment as to whether it is economically viable re: if roles exist for you to use the qualifications and be financially renumerated for your skills.

also be aware that to keep having your pay move up you really need to be taking on more responsibility and moving up the career ladder as in any profession unless, as said, you just stay in the same secure role you're in.

i wasn't a drone as an nqt but i was definitely more up to date and positive than most of my colleagues who were of the kind who had sat on their bums and seen their pay double without really doing anything extra for it, who were complacent to say the least about their cpd and were pretty ineffective in the classroom. they didn't even like teaching but were determined they were going to work out their last few years and get their full pension. they were absolute dead weights upon the finances of the school and upon progress and those of us who wanted to improve things.

it can always work both ways. expensive, been there too long, can't be gotten rid of and have no intention of moving on teachers were the downfall of the first school i worked in.

That can work both ways too Santa ... I've seen some pretty useless NQTs who think they know it all because they are fresh out of uni and don't realise what they have been taught at uni is no longer the current method ... and who are shocked to realise it isn't like a placement and they actually have to keep up the pace for a whole term

rather more forgivable though i find mrz

Oh, I don't know. It's quite refreshing when the whinge face wears off around February on some of them.
Or when they realise that all the training and reasonable, logical and honest approaches they've been taught are little use the first time a tricky parent gets their teeth into them. Then they need a bit of help from someone with cunning experience of RL encounters in school.

it is if they are willing to learn but some have been lead to believe by the universities that they are outstanding teachers before they have their first class they aren't willing to listen to those old out of date teachers (even those who have gained MAs and PHDs)

The majority of NQTs I've worked with and mentored have been fantastic though, flexible and involved and ferociously hard-working. So it would take a seriously amazing, more expensive older teacher to be in with a chance against them in their first few years of teaching.
Best bet is to do long-term supply and get known by your local schools, then you will have a reputation and be a known presence when jobs come up.

What about setting up your own or offering your services to a free school, we haven;t got one in our area yet but i'm sure they'd be popular in places where the outstanding schools are few and far between.

I'm an NQT and spent all last year job hunting - what stood out to me was the range of applicants. I was told that a few years ago there would be maximum three or four candidates at the interview stage. Last year I went on interviews with no less than five others and at one there was ten of us, but there was definitely a mix of experienced teachers and NQTs.

There are not enough jobs to go round, at all, and schools (like everybody else in the uk) are having their budgets slashed, which makes it even worse. You obviously have a wealth of experience which is invaluable, but there are going to be a lot of teachers out there, also with a lot of experience, who are cheaper. It's a real shame.

What amazes me though is that of the 10 or so teachers I know from secondary school/college, only ONE actually always wanted to be a teacher! The others decided to do PGCE either because they couldn't get a job after uni (height of recession) or because a masters in their uni subject was too expensive. They were all good students and lovely people, but it makes me that they were getting jobs in teaching when it was by no means their passion.

(by secondary/college I mean people I went to school with, not that they are all teaching that level - most are in primary)

Yeah, but what normal, well-balanced teenager looks at their teachers & thinks: 'I'll do that, it looks fantastic'?

Pretty much the only colleagues I have who always wanted to be teachers are the sons or daughters of teachers. They went into it as a nice, safe, reasonably paid option, & for the holidays &/or the pension, tbh - those of us who moved jobs later in our careers tend to be more passionate IME.

I do have quite a few old Uni friends who taught for a few years after we graduated in '92, mostly abroad, but not many of them haven't long since moved on to other industries.

Oddly enough the young people I know who don't want to be teachers are the sons and daughters of teachers because they see the real picture.

That would definitely have been my reaction!

But I was chatting to two colleagues today (both 'second generation').

Both young, both teaching competently but unenthusiastically because they saw it as a straight forward career path, it pays a respectable wage in your mid-20s, & you get to have a nice long summer break.

Neither intend to stay with it long term but both sticking with it for now as a safe option.

Funny my son was explaining to a friend that he would never consider teaching because people think you get lots of holidays but you spend them in school I may have to arrange alternative days out at half term