Deep breath - This may turn into a rant

[ButWhyIsTheGinGone]

Hello Everyone,
I teach year 5 and have a great (interesting!) class and a TA who is really dedicated. It is common practice in our school for the TA to jot notes on the work of the children they've been working with every lesson before I mark it.

I am getting really frustrated at seeing comments such as "where is your full stops?" "What about puntuation?" or "Was you here for the first part of the lesson?" She also corrects spellings that were previously correct! If I ask where a child's gone she replies, "she's gone for a toilet." I KNOW, I KNOW, I KNOW these aren't crimes of the century but I firmly believe we are there to model good spoken and written English.

Firstly, I hate having to subtly correct the TA's written comments/corrections, and secondly I'm annoyed this happens. All the TA's are being asked to produce their GCSE certificates at the moment (not sure why, possibly to prove they have achieved a C in Maths and Lit.) They are up in arms about it, and I suspect a few of them don't have these qualifications.

My question is really to wonder why, with TA work being pretty desirable, we don't pick more selectively. I take part in the interview process of many new staff in school, but obviously don't have the final say. Our last TA post went to a parent who had hand written their application on lined note paper ripped from a spiral note pad - I'm not joking!

Not meaning to sound snobbish - we have some brilliant TA's at our school, but IMO spelling/grammar mistakes are just not good enough. (Yes I've probs made a few here!)

In the school I am a governor, they would not get past the job application stage, the deputy head is stickler for correct punctuation and spelling and highlights all the mistakes in red ink!
I agree with them. If the people are going to be paid to improve the education of the pupils they should be able to do it themselves!

I think this is one job that should stipulate that the application form should be handwritten. Our school do this and it means a lot of applications are rejected straight away.

BTW is that THREE teachers now who have used TA's instead of TAs?

Some TAs leave a lot to be desired, others are brilliant but there are two reasons why they have their problems.
Money and status!
TAs get paid peanuts and often work very limited hours. Their hours and whole posts are on the line every time our small schools numbers fall.
Teachers have spent years undermining TAs. Covering their own backs by ensuring TAs are forbidden from doing any teaching or showing any initiative. For as long as I can remember teachers have been petrified that HTs might use TAs to cover for sick teachers etc. Rather than use expensive supply staff.
Therefore, for many being a TA is a job not a career.
In an area like this with fickle birth rates and widely fluctuating pupil numbers the pool of TAs is very limited.
The pay, hours and job security just don't make it viable for people to commute any distance. Probably incurring child care costs as well.
You can of course add local "politics" to who gets support jobs in schools and who keeps them, despite years of parental dissatisfaction.

Alright miss pedant!

Us TAs don't get many chances to get one over on the teachers!

I'm a TA , so ner

Shouldn't that be 'we TAs ...'? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Hmm - not sure about this bit, startail.
Teachers have spent years undermining TAs. Covering their own backs by ensuring TAs are forbidden from doing any teaching or showing any initiative. For as long as I can remember teachers have been petrified that HTs might use TAs to cover for sick teachers etc. Rather than use expensive supply staff.

In our school the TAs cover us for PPA and we are glad to have them do so as the kids behave infinitely better with adults that they know. I know unions are not in favour of this as it does indeed take work awat from supply teachers, but on the whole, schools these days are so stretched financially it really is the most sensible option.
I would like to think I give my TA the chance to use her initiative - she's not some brainless, lazy idiot; she contributes a huge amount to our class. I just worry about the impact of her spelling/grammar, etc. However, I must say that when my TA is going to be covering the class I never leave anything that actually needs to be "taught." This is not due to any control-freakishness, or desire to "undermine" her, but more the fact she simply teaches things wrong.

Cecily - I only get £7 an hour, what do you expect?

Some teachers really dont seem to know HOW to utilise their TAs though. I have worked with many different teachers and was even allowed to sharpen the pencils once!

Whereas other teachers have been fantastic and not seen me as some underling who works 'for' them

I'm have QTS and have also worked as a TA both pre and post qualification (as a teacher). I've also worked as a teacher with good and bad TAs- OP you have my sympathy there is nothing worse than a bad one in class with you. Unfortunately as a profession it's underpaid and in dire need of an overhaul.

I wouldn't bother with post it notes etc. you're the teacher. She shouldn't be marking books.

'I'm have QTS'. Tsk! Tsk!

lamb I disagree that TAs hsouldnt mark books. We work with guided groups and mark the childrens work while they stand with us

I am an HLTA when I began working towards this qualification many years ago I spoke to the HT about being allowed to teach the class something that was not done as much at that time but was a requirement of the course. I actually asked would it be ok to teach when I wasn't qualified her reply am in charge and if I want to put a scarecrow in front of a class I can.
This attitude, I think, still prevails we have some dreadful TAs but their faces fit.

I have helped in class in my DCs school over many years and seen lots of teacher/TA "teams". Clearly some relationships work much better than others. I am also a parent governor and we often discuss how best to deploy TAs for max benefit to the pupils. I have never heard of TAs marking work books though. OP, I can't really see what the value is as it seems to double the work load as, even if all the comments written by the TA were correct, you still have to read them in addition to reading the children's work, if only to check that any comment you make doesn't contradict hers. However, as things stand you have 2 lots of work to correct so it's insane to carry on with this dual marking.
On the issue of spoken English, I am in two minds. If I am honest, our relatively new head is not perfect in this regard. However, that may mean he is a better role model for kids from low income families? And it is a fact that a lot of people do talk like that and this shouldn't devalue them as a result! My MIL is a Londoner born and bred and sadly my DCs are not above being a bit cheeky to her re her grammar now they are getting old enough to notice such things, which I don't like as she has a heart of gold and would do anything for them.

Individual teachers may respect the role TAs play, but their unions etc don't.
I'm not a teacher, but I've thought about it and followed the education news over the years. I am absolutely certain I have heard and read reports of teaching unions taking a very dim view of anything that weakens QTS and teachers status as a *"profession".

*Done well teaching is perhaps the most valuable profession of all!

Like nurse practitioners, HLTAs can train and gain a larger role, but I don't think either Drs or teachers are all totally happy about it.

hocus tired and jabby on the i touch does not make for coherent posting.

cyb sorry, she shouldn't be marking books. And if the OP feels uncomfortable telling her that there's something really wrong with the dynamic in that class- probably because the SMT have seriously undermined the teacher by appointing her.

Can anyone confirm that only a certain level of TA (HLTA?) can cover regular PPA? Op's school's children sound like they are getting a bum deal with lessons covered by illiterate TAs!

Yes it shoudl really be HLTAs I think. I am one

It can be anyone the head deems able including volunteers

When considering using a TA to take class HTs should have regard to HLTA standards. What should HTs have regard to when considering anyone else?

Examples include instructor or volunteer. Is it "only" HTs judgement on skills, experience, expertise, insurance and Child protection?

Answer: For anyone who is not a teacher undertaking 'specified' work to a higher level, especially where this includes delivery of lessons to whole classes, it is strongly recommended that the headteacher should have regard to the standards for HLTAs.

Schools would need to ensure its insurance policies adequately cover staff for any activities they are being asked to undertake. Where schools buy insurance from the LEA, the Authority may need to examine its insurance policies to ensure they cover what is required. On Health and Safety grounds schools need to follow guidelines from the LEA.

The headteacher will need to ensure that the standard checks for anybody working in a school are carried out. Further details are available in paragraph 32 of the S133 regulations and information on pre-appointment checks cab be found in DfES guidance ref: DfES/0278/2002.

I like sparrowfart's idea.

I was certainly gobsmacked at the level of work required of me when I started as a TA (I do 25 hours of 1:1 with children who have an absolutely enormous level of need as far as I'm concerned), but I don't ever mark work. What would be the point? If the teacher sets the work, the teacher needs to mark it, or where is their responsibility for the child's progress? If I set the work, then it's based on targets that have been set by the teacher or external professionals, so I do record what the child has done, but the child doesn't see what I record.

Again, rejig the work so that the TA does what she's good at, whatever that is. If she really has to mark work, then do what sparrowfart suggests.

DS's teacher last year always used to say "two times" instead of "twice" but to be honest her other qualities far outweighed the negatives. Do you think the TA is open to learning and changing?
I would rather be picked up on things. I passed English and Maths and have trained as a TA (overseas) but not really gone for any work over here. I would prefer to be corrected...

As a TA I've worked with teachers with worse spelling than me! It's in maths lessons that I've really had to bite my tongue, though. The worst incident was in history when I had to persuade a Y2 teacher not to teach the children that we were at war with Russia during WW2!

I mark children's work, but I'm more comfortable marking maths than literacy. It's too bloody subjective. How can you ever mark exactly as the teacher would? Do you correct every spelling mistake, or would that affect the child's confidence?