Nursery class with no teacher?

[JinglingAllTheWay]

Anyone had any experience of this? My Dn ( who lives with us) starts nursery this week and her class don't have a teacher, just a nursery nurse ( who is also a HLTA).

I work wth children and all out classes have a teacher, I have asked a few people at school and everyone seems to think this is odd ( although this school is in a different county).

I've tried to do some research but is all a bit unclear... Should the class have a teacher? I've queried it with the school and they said the class is 'over seen' by the reception teacher. But she never actually works with them.

Just wanted to check what the guidelines were and whether this is usual practice or if this school is doing something different.

My 2 went to a different school before we moved so never went through this nursery.

Thanks for any info :)

How many people are in the class? Ratios are very strict for 3 and 4 year olds.

Our preschool has no 'teacher'. Play Leaders and assistants, who are all qualified childcarers but not teachers.

Are you asking about a UK school?

Our pre-school has an EYP and NVQ qualified staff.

The next county has nursery classes adjoining their reception classes and they all employ Qualified Teachers.

Yeah we are in the UK :)

There are 20 in her class with just the NN.. Although there is a shared reception TA.

NURSERY nurses are not sufficient for a NURSERY class? am i missing something, or isnt the whole point of nursery nurses to be qualified to teach nursery classes?

Hmm, that sounds unusual. Where I work the nursery classes have a qualified teacher - the ratio of children:adults is different with a teacher (26 I think) than with other adults (8).

Hmm... I'm fairly sure the ratio should be 1:12 with a class teacher, and 1:8 with a NN, i.e. 2:20 when they're both in. I shall go see if I can find out for sure.

Crisp.. She has just left the pre school (before Christmas) to join the 'bug school'. There was no teachers at the pre-school, just trained EYs people who were fab :)
This is the school nursery :)

Big not bug*

If the NN is an EYP (or QTS) they can have a ratio of 1:13 for themselves! (Although there is an EYP in the pre-school at dc's school this ratio is not used, they stick to 1:8).

Here's a link

"Nursery schools and classes have a minimum ratio of two adults to 20 to 26 children. One must be a qualified teacher, the other a qualified nursery assistant."

Where is the Reception teacher? In the same room? Does s/he have assistance too? I think your school might be sailing close to the wind here.

No nailak - nursery nurses provide childcare but they don't "teach". A teacher teaches a nursery class, and directs the work of nursery nurses/assistants/early years workers.

I don't think there is a legal requirement for private nurseries or pre-schools to have a teacher, but nursery classes (in schools, children's centres, state nursery schools etc) generally do.

If there are two members of staff to 20 and a child wets themselves (not uncommon in 3-4 year olds!) how are they changed, given the guidance is always to have another member of staff observing you when changing a child?

I can't understand how it works in practice?

I think there is a bit of a loophole where HLTA's can take a class under the direction of a teacher (the teacher plans the work, the HLTA carries it out) but I was under the impression that this could only be a temporary measure or to cover non-contact time rather than a permanent thing.

Thanks panzee - the reception class is a little bit down the corridor... They have a teacher and a TA ( TA to be shared with dn's nursery class).

I have never heard that guidance Clayhead! I doubt many nurseries have enough staff to have a chaperone for changing children.

It's the guidance in our county!

I help in the pre-school and it is always adhered to.

At our school nursery there's a teaching auxiliary and she has usually got 2 assistants. The nursery coordinator teacher who spent half her week there was axed recently and so one of the primary teachers is now charged with overseeing things.

The Auxiliary is amazingly wonderful though so I'm very happy with that - after all, they go to nursery to learn to shut up, sit still and listen once in a while - not to learn algebra

I have never come across that in private or state nurseries - how does it work safely? If you have a room of 3 adults and 12 two year olds, would 2 adults really go to the bathroom with 1 child and leave the other 11 with one adult?

Ok I'm a governor of a school in Wales. Nursery does not have to have a teacher in the class room however planning and management must be undertaken by a teacher. A higher level TA can take the class on a day to day basis.
I know because we considered this in the nursery setting.
Not sure about if this applies outside Wales though,

Very true ohbugrit

Yes, it works like that except there are always 5-6 adults so never less than three in the room at one time.

Thanks Idontsoironing - Willard if I can find out - we are not near Wales so it may be different. :)

Interesting Clayhead, I guess it would only work in big nurseries or with larger groups of older children, which makes it rather pointless as blanket guidance

There used to be a difference between a Day Care Nursery (no formal teacher required) and a Nursery Class (possibly in a school, but not necessarily) when there should be a teacher overseeing, even if not there all the time.

This may help (if the link works!):

www.alliance-leicestercommercialbank.co.uk/bizguides/full/daynursery/parkes-legal_matters.asp

I'm sure you will find plenty of other places for clarification, Ofsted, dfes (or whatever it's called now) etc.