Moving down a numeracy group a confidence knock or build?

[Frog253]

DD (yr4) has been moved down a numeracy group-there are two groups and I suppose about 30 in each. She's been told that it's not about her ability in maths but to do with her confidence. Not sure what to think about that? Surely there's a knock to your confidence moving down a group and a build to your confidence going up a group?

I was always at the bottom of a top group, quite liked being part of that gang but can honestly say that I didn't emerge from school a confident person. Not sure if my lack of confidence came from solely not being in the right group at school though.

DD seems OK with the move as her teacher has given her an explanation that sounds plausible and has been given 3 ticks for her numeracy work already.

So is it better for your confidence and development in a subject to be at the bottom of a top group or the top of the lower group? Will her confidence grow so that she can move up again? Or has she been fobbed off with some reasoning that has nothing whatsoever to do her move?
Thoughts and experiences gratefully received....

I would have thought that it would depend on the child.

Some children will get confidence from the knowledge of "I am in the top group" but if put down, don't particuarly see the merit of being at the top of the next group and slide down to be a comfortable middle.

Other children will lose confidence in the top group because they get a new maths concept, it has to be explained to them carefully for a second time, and they've just got question 2 wrong when the top end has finished question 20 and is moving onto harder.

They may also be more support in the lower group to assist those who need a little extra explanation. The top group can be expected to operate fairly independently.

We had this with dd1. The move was the right thing. She gained in confidence, now predicted an 'A' in Gcse Maths

Frog253:

Had something similar happen with DD1 but with reading group, but she was Y1.

I think DeWe is correct - it depends on the child, but I also think it depends on the teacher.

So my advice is to track what's going on with your DD. In some schools Top Group doesn't get a lot of one to one time with the teacher or teaching assistants because the usually pick things up very quickly and then get on with it. So the teacher may be correct in thinking your DD might do better with a bit more teaching support and as a high flyer in a lower group.

I suppose what I'd be looking at as a parent is how is she doing in terms of what she should ideally be covering. The Campaign for real education has publishes what a child should be covering by year: www.cre.org.uk/docs/primary_maths_curriculum.pdf

Year 4 information is on p17 onwards. Remember that this is 'ideal world' stuff -but nevertheless you can see what should be covered and get a better sense of things.

Finally, as many have pointed out, groups (or sets) in classes are dependent on abilities of the entire class in that given year. Some years are full of very bright children performing well above national excpectations and others may be performing far below national expectations. So also take a moment to step back and consider that your DD may be in a year where there are a number of high flyers in maths - so being in '2nd group' may not necessarily mean she's not doing well - it may even mean she's doing above expected level for the year - but that a small number of her classmates are working at an even higher level (or simply getting it more quickly).

Things to watch out for. If your DD suddenly is doing work that simply is too easy - this isn't a good thing. Track it, especially if she's doing repeated exercises/ lessons.

Try and gently find out how DD feels about the new group and how she's doing. I think you have to allow the teacher to try this, but if your feeling at home is that it isn't working (and to be fair you need to give it a few weeks) then arrange to see the teacher to discuss your concerns.

Thank you all for your feedback and the link Pastbyselldate. I think that it might be a bright year, all my friend's children seem to be in the top group, and plenty in the G & T group. The school is oversubscribed and I think that as new children arrive they have to readjust the groups a bit perhaps?
I had a quick look at her Y3 report and she was classed as 'above average' and I have no reason to think that she has started to struggle.
I will track her work as you suggest and keep talking to her about it. I hope it will work out for her.
IMO DD1 could really do with a boost to her confidence, she just keeps getting little knocks from one place or another.