Infant class size debate starts - thoughts?

[RueDeWakening]

Infant class size "debate" featuring my local council has made it into the Telegraph - are they really likely to get any primary legislation passed that would allow them to increase infant class sizes to 32?

All the primary schools around here are under massive pressure, most have already been expanded as far as possible, and AFAIK there are no plans to open a free school anywhere within the borough. So given that the council will still be 100s of primary places short at allocation for the next few years, what will happen? This year they opened an additional reception class after October half term to provide places for 26 or so reception-age kids still not in education due to lack of places.

(This isn't entirely hypothetical, I have a 1yo DS due to start school in Sept 2014 and we are even now not within the admissions distance for any school in the borough, he is unlikely to get into DD's school even with the sibling priority.)

My yr2 son is already in a class of 32. Last year and the year before that he was in a class of 31 so it's already happening in some schools.

Well, we'll need funding for a lot of tables and chairs!

Say 15000 schools x £50 for table and chair = £750000.
For an assumed average one form entry:
£750000 x 3 (YR, Y1 and Y2) = £2.25M

Seems unbelievable but school where I work reception class is in one room (large) with 75 children there are 3 teachers so children are put into groups to work plus about 5 TA's.

This is a new school opened 3 yrs ago.

They'll need the tables and chairs for the numbers of pupils, regardless of whether it's in larger classes, or in additional classes/schools (for which they'd also need classrooms, equipment and teachers).

I suppose it all comes down to the best (or least worst) way of managing the higher numbers. If it's known to be a demographic blip, then (providing it really is only 2 more pupils, not the thin end of the wedge) I can see the attractions. If it is however an enduring trend, then more or bigger schools will have to be part of the solution.

But I suppose my view on class sizes is coloured by the much larger class sizes which were the norm when I went through school. There were 40 in my class at primary, so 32 still seems small to me.

I'm not convinced it's a blip - or if it is, it's a fairly long-running one, there's been evidence of it for the last 6 or 7 years I believe, and it's projected to last until 2018 at least. Our council blamed the cap on housing benefit for the increased demand on primary places this year, completely ignoring the fact that the cap has not actually started yet.

Goodness knows what they'll come up with for next September - presumably, blaming the government for not letting them up the class sizes... :o

That's true Edith - silly me! Tired....... emotional.......

The birth rate has been increasing since 2001, so all this rubbish about not knowing about increasing number of primary pupils is pure drivel.
What is very difficult is for LAs to know is how that will affect their numbers because they do not know exact numbers of potential pupils there are in any one area. Obviously in many areas the level of ingress of children into the country from abroad is also causing problems but LAs are not in my opinion doing the level of forward planning that is necessary.
If an area (covering a number of schools) has little or no available school places and the birth rate is continuing to climb it does not need a genius to work out that you will probably need more school places over the next X years. Births in 2011 translates into needed school places in 2015.
Bulge classes can solve some immediate problems but what is needed is actual building of new minimum 1 form entry primary schools, because this issue is not going away, it is getting worse. The government has I believe put in £500M for new school places, which at circa £3M per school, is something like 180 new schools or existing school being doubled in size. I wonder exactly how many are being built or how many short term inadequate lash ups are being put together, which is a bad use of the funding.
Putting the maximum class size to 32 is not an answer, its a sticking plaster knee jerk reaction. Personally i would get rid of the infant class size regs that say you can't admit unless a mistake has been made and trust admission appeal panels to only admit above 30 in infant classes where there are individual cases that justify it. And that is not a parent thinks it is the right school for their kid!

In my LA a number of primary schools were earmarked for closure in 2012 ...then surprise surprise there aren't enough school places!
As admission says looking at birth rates should have told them what to expect.

Admission I agree with you totally about LAs looking at birth rates. But I am not happy with the idea of appeal panels regulating class sizes. DDs school had 9 Reception children admitted on appeal, because they are in catchment, despite places being allocated to the majority of the children at good local schools, including an Ofsted outstanding school. A similar story happened 2 years ago. Last time the school got funding to help, this time they have been told to manage as obviously they are running 3 recept classes, but surely for this to continue happening would have a negative impact on other children

Crazy in my LEA - they closed loads of schools due to surplus places in 2004/5. They must have known what was coming; there are mobile classrooms and bolt on wings galore now.

Our LEA added something like 6 or 7 bulge classes this year. They do not have the capacity to do that again in the coming years, nearly every school in the borough is at capacity as far as "easy" extensions go. The "answer" is to build a new school (ideally 3 or 4 of them, all 2 form entry). The problem is we're in outer London, there's very little or no space available to build in. And no money to do it with.

The fact that there's been a target for the council to increase housing density here (and in other areas in outer London) but nothing provided to support services doesn't help, either - not just schools, but hospitals, transport etc too. The council seriously believed that building 500+ flats would have no impact on schools, as "families don't live in flats" . Yeah, that's right, idiots. And presumably the 175 family houses also being built might have an impact then...

Personally, I think it's ridiculous. There are 30 y1/reception children in the first class at the school I work at and it's too many. We already don't have enough spaces for all the children to sit at tables at the same time, thank goodness for free flow!

If they are going to do it it has to be on a school by school basis, and they need to increase the number of teaching assistants.

But really, teachers and TAs are already stretched enough as it is in infant classes and they should be thinking about reducing the class sizes if they are serious about improving education.

There are over 30 in my daughter's reception class so agree, this is already happening.

There did seem to be a birth rate spike in 2006/2007 but also there has been a lot of new building in our area and of course services like schools and doctors etc have not expanded in proportion (or at all tbh) so this problem will only get worse over the years unless something happens soon.

This piece on the BBc website at the moment shows the level of continuing pressure on reception places for the next three years or so.

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/11/infant-class-sizes-primary-schools