KS2 Maths SATS Paper A ('no calculator')- score to get a 4 or 5?

[LittenTree]

I am asking because DS2 wants to know. He just did last year's SATS paper (h/w) and wants to know whether his result, -though he knows its one of 3 papers, the others being 'with calculator' and 'mental maths' -would get him a 4 or 5 at his SATS in 4 odd months' time? It's marked out of 40.

fwiw, the school, being all 'equal-opportunity/all-shall-get-prizes' won't tell him!

Which year?

The only way to get a level is to add marks from Paper A, Paper B and the Mental Maths test score. You can't ascertain a level from Paper A alone.

What was his mark?

Y6. He takes his SATS in 4.5 months.

feenie- yes, appreciated, but in the same way as uni DCs are told they're 'on track' for a 1:1 or 2:2 based on one exam in Yr 1, I feel it's an indicator as to how much more work he needs to do on this type of maths, or whether he can focus on something else. He's keen to emulate his DB who got 5's.

I am in no way crowing about this. 5's, in the Big Picture, means 'a bit above average', not necessarily Oxbridge, but it does spell 'comfortable with this subject'.

Yes, SATS are a crude weapon but at least they give the DCs some sort of indication of where they're heading, what needs work etc.

He got 35/40.

Okay, well if he was to replicate that mark in Paper B and score, say 18/20 in the Mental Maths then he would get 88/100 which would be well into level 5 (77 was needed last year for a level 5).

You've completely misunderstood me though - all the components have to be added a get a level - it isn't possible to ascertain this from one paper alone unless you 'guess' the other marks, as you can see from my example.

No, I get where you're coming from, I do! It was more - 'What sort of level in terms of points would a DC need to know that particular area of Maths (Paper A) was going to get him in the '5' league' -which you answered, thanks!

Paper B and the mental Maths to follow!

Am I right that gaining an overall 77% will have got him a 5 last year?

As others have said, without scores for all 3 papers you cannot really gather enough information for a level; different aspects of maths are tested on different papers.

However, as a VERY ROUGH guide, we generally consider that AROUND 50% generally achieves a Level 4 and AROUND 75% generally achieves a Level 5.

The precise % required for each level varies slightly each year.

But, AS A VERY ROUGH GUIDE, if your DS scored around 20/40 then you could think of this as APPROXIMATELY L4; around 30/40 could be a guide to L5. This of course assumes that he would achieve the same on all 3 papers - which is not necessarily the case!

Sorry - cross-posted - watching QI and trying to type too!

Yes, Littentree, 77/100 would have got a level 5 last year.

If you ask his teacher she will tell you what level he is currently working at. If she won't, then the head will. Much better than trying to work it out from scraps of information.

I meant which year's paper OP

I think IN GENERAL the scores for the calculator paper are sometimes lower than that of the non calculator ( although there are always children for whom this is the opposite!)
As an indicator one of my children who scored 39 on Paper A achieved a level 5A, one who scored 32 managed a 5C and a 30 gave a 4A.

Thanks-

The paper was 2010 (sorry, thought you meant which year group was he in, I sort of thought 'I mentioned that in the OP' BUT I am as guilty of skim reading as the next MNetter so wouldn't have been rude enough to point that out!)

I know what you mean, seeker, about asking the teacher but we have found, to be honest, that we as a family have managed to pull up his Literacy scores quite dramatically by 'taking charge' (via LOTS of work at home, and KipMcGrath). His teacher saw fit to actually mention this improvement to us. He's 'on course' for 4s but I think he's capable of 5 in at least Maths. Absolutely understandably, the school have a limited number of resources and will concentrate their main effort into getting a '3' DC to '4' rather than nudging a 4 to 5, iyswim; which is why he himself wants us to help him. He'll do this SATS paper, it will disappear into the the maw of school, he will never be given an actual 'this would have got you a 4c/5a/whatever'. So I also mark it but I don't know the marks scheme (I do now- though what gets you a '4'? what %age?)

For 2010, the level 5 threshold was 79, level 4 was 46-78. All marks are out of 100 ( each written paper is out of 40, the mental maths is out of 20.

Thanks for the info!

Best thing you can do is go through a paper & see what he needs help with. If he can do it all comfortably he easily should achieve a level 5 even allowing for some silly mistakes. Any areas he's not sure of he can go over with you.

Yes, that's the marvellous thing about being able to access past papers. Whilst it would be so easy to see me as a pushy mum who wants a 5 for her p(S!)b, the reality is and the way I see it is that a few past papers spread over a few years should encompass the whole KS2 curriculum, so, if he does enough of those, he and we will get to see where his problems are in Maths which allows some targetted learning.

That's the point, really, of this exercise! A 5 would be a confidence building icing on the cake.

If he's getting 35, he doesn't have too many problems!
I find my able mathematicians tend to make more careless mistakes on the yr 6 paper as they find them quite easy and don't concentrate as much as they should! You might find this is the case rather than a difficulty in a specific area!

Schools need to get their 4s to 5s as well if they want good OFSTEDS!

Honestly, there will be a record in school of what he got for each paper he does. Ask, and be persistent. At my ds's school, they keep computerised records - they need to for APP, or whichever initiative is in place qt the moment. So they only have to press a button to know exactly where each child is in terms of NC levels.

The school should tell you what level he is working at if you ask - it won't be based on just one KS2 test anyway - there's no reason not to share this information with you.

Quick hijack for any teachers about . My DS has just sat the 2010 papers and came out of school today to say he got 91 out of 100. He used to hate maths and felt quite unconfident until this year, so we are really chuffed, and he is very pleased with himself. Obviously, this is Level 5, but would that result make Level 6, or can that not be tested on this paper? No real need to know, just out of interest! Ta.

That paper only tests levels 3 to 5, so he would need to sit a Level 6 paper.

Ok, thanks Feenie. I will tell him I don't know about whether he could be a Level 6, but he should feel very proud of himself anyway .

Absolutely! Well done your ds

Feenie. You know, DS's progress in maths has shown me just how important a good teacher is. DS has always been able to do maths, but has never enjoyed it, always worried and felt intimidated by the black or whiteness of getting it right or wrong.

His teacher this year seems to have just turned this around, so he actually enjoys maths now, and will tell people he is good at maths, whereas he used to just say he hated it if anyone asked. She seems to have made it fun, interesting and non-intimidating, and in that environment, DS seems to have flown. I think I am moved to write to the head and tell her how impressed I am .