Learning literacy - can I do serious damage?!

[RillaBlythe]

DD age 3.6 is very interested in letters - lots of 'what does nursery begin with', 'look there's a n', 'write mummy for me' etc. I respond to her questions but don't particularly introduce any more than that. I try to use phonics but sometimes use letter names as well. I suppose I'm worried that I might be bumbling along doing damage to her emerging literacy through my cluelessness on the subject (fluent reader myself with degree in Eng Lit, mind! Not that I'm functionally illiterate or anything)

I am interested in this too as we are facing exactly the same question! DD is 3.4 and tells me which of her friends have a name that starts with S, C is for cat, etc.

I am vaguely aware that I shouldn't push this, so like you OP I simply answer her questions and try to use phonics. But yesterday when choosing her bedtime stories she wanted the alphabet book (gift from Grandma, honest) and proceded to sing a, b, c to me with all the letter names! I didn't teach her that so it must have come from pre-school.

I have to admit I am a bit confused as to what i should or shouldn't be encouraging here.

Why not use both? As long as you tell her the difference and she understands it then it should be fine. Don't push it, just go at her pace. If she asks then tell her.

I mostly started with letter sounds before the names. It did no harm using both in my case - in fact I think ds1 had a good start.
Ds2 is starting to say letters now and I am leading by his example. If I'm honest I push him slightly also. Just to see what he can remember..

I run literacy/phonics workshops for parents and we generally advocate both at the same time. Your child knows that the big animal in the field is a cow and it says MOOO. She won't confuse the 2 eg that's a moo and it says cow. In the same way children cope very well with letters having a name AND a sound.

Just be careful to use the pure sound eg mmmm NOT muh.

As a literacy coordinator and a reception teacher I would be reluctant to teach letter names matched to the letter shape before a child is secure in knowing their sounds as many children struggle later when blending and segmenting. The result is children will write dA for day and nIt for night .... That isn't to say I wouldn't sing the alphabet song.

So you'd say match letter shape to letter sound before letter name? Does anyone else find that hard?!

For most children in reception I don't teach letter names ... to be honest they are a convention but not really useful for reading and spelling.

I disagree, but just goes to show that there is no one way. I have taught in class and worked as a literacy consultant for years and I teach both together and think that the letter names are vital for spelling.

If a child needs to know how to spell a word, I will always use letter names 'was' for example, is not the 3 sounds that those letters make so I would always use the names. I don't think that makes any sense written down - but I know what I mean

Also I've seen a lot of miscues for spelling but never dA.

I.........think that the letter names are vital for spelling.

Why?

I work with KS3 children and I have certainly seen errors such as mrz describes.

U can't do any harm at all, as long as u realise that the sounds are usually taught first.

The vowel letters a, e, i, o and u all have at least two sounds anyway.
Their names are one of the sounds they have (apron, he, kind, both, use).

This fact will confuse some children, no matter what u or teachers do.

Masha Bell

If a child needs to know how to spell a word, I will always use letter names 'was' for example, is not the 3 sounds that those letters make so I would always use the names.
but the letter a represents the o sound when it follows w so they are the sounds those letters make in that combination as most of the 4 year olds in our reception can tell you.

Not teaching letter names keeps the potential for confusion to a minimum, masha.

Agreed mrz but what's your rationale for s making a z sound? As I said, I don't think that mine is the only way - but I have successfully taught both together for many years. As long as you offer the pure sound, you will not be 'damaging' her in any way op

I would show them some of the other words where s represents z

is and has are fairly common examples that children are familiar with

the letter a represents the o sound when it follows w

... most of the time (in 19 words), but not in:

Wax, swam, wag, swag, swagger or swanky.

I have no idea how a child could reach the age of 3 without knowing the names of the letters.

I guess you'd have to really make a point of never telling them the letters, banning all vtech-esque toys .

DD2 isn't even 2 yet and I realised today that she is able to answer all her infernal fake laptop's "What is letter b?" questions.

So, when it's too late and the letter names are already known, what is the best approach to take?

DD1 is 3.9 and sometimes very interested in learning to read, and it has started to be a problem for her that she can't at times with various things she does.

I neither want to push and make a bollocks of it, or fail to respond to her interest.

Or wanker/wanky, Masha

the letter a represents the o sound when it follows w

... most of the time (in 19 words)

More than 19, surely.

This is a very interesting discussion, and one that I think about daily as I'm teaching DD (4.8) to read in English.

She attends a Spanish speaking school where she is also learning letter names (rather than sounds) in Spanish, and is also being taught to print and do joined up letters at the same time! And the letters in Spanish are often written very differently to the way they are written in the UK.

Perfect recipe for confusing a child!

But you know, she seems to be processing all the information in her little head and doesn't seem as confused as I would expect.

I think sometimes children have a larger capacity than we give them credit for. Surely each child is different and the key is to monitor each one's progress and alter the approach accordingly.

IMHE as a reception teacher for 20 years there are usually only a handful of children who start our school each year knowing letter names linked to letter shapes, most can sing the alphabet song (in a fashion). Obviously this will vary depending on home background ... I don't think vtech figures highly on out children's letters to Santa.

I think you just have to remember that letter names are totally useless when reading or segmenting a word for spelling but they are pretty useful if you use a telephone directory or other index. I wouldn't spell out words using letter names with her until she is secure in using sounds.

I am not responsible for a single vtech item crossing my threshold, but people buy them as presents and kids seem to love them (despite my efforts to interest them in less noisy more wholesome toys that I have chosen.

What do you do with the children who start with minds polluted by letter names? :o

It is too late for my (born) children not to know this stuff.

Do they even use phonics in NI does anyone know?

DD1 knows lots of the letter sounds too, but I get a bit confused myself with what to say when it's not the "expected" sound, e.g. I will explain that two o's together makes an oo sound, but then what about book (unless my Granny is saying it :o)?

AThingInYourLife no one has said knowing letter names is polluting a child's mind only that for some children it can be an obstacle and is best left if possible until later.

NI research less well known that Clackmannanshire

Belfast guide to helping your child

So Mrz, when you are teaching phonics, do you say "today we are doing the sound "ay" which is made of the letter that sometimes sounds ah and sometimes o depending which other letters are with it, plus the letter that sometimes sounds "i like in it" and sometimes sounds "eye", so here are those two squiggles, "ai" ?

Or is it we are learning "ai" which sounds "ay".

It has to be the latter, but I'd have thought that once you get onto two letter phonemes, it is handy to know the names of the letters.

Actually (lightbulb moment!) writing this out has made me see, it is the other way round...you say "we are learning the sound "ay", which is written as "ai", and just not mention the letter names at this stage.

So Mrz, when you are teaching phonics, do you say "today we are doing the sound "ay" which is made of the letter that sometimes sounds ah and sometimes o depending which other letters are with it,

I definitely wouldn't say that because the sound ay doesn't ever say o no matter what letters it is with ...

What I would say is this word says was but it has a tricky part

Can we sound out the word was? hopefully get w-o-z
and then explain that in was and want and watch and what and ...
the letter a represents o (they should already know s-z from is and has but I would remind them)

Feenie
the letter a represents the o sound when it follows w ... most of the time (in 19 words) More than 19, surely.
I could find only
Swallow, swamp, swan, swap;
waft, wand, wander, want, wanton, warrant, warren, warrior,
was, wash, wasp, watch, watt, wattle,
what.

There are also 10 with 'qua'
Quality, quadrangle, quantity,

quarantine, quarry;
squabble, squad,
squander, squash,
squat.

The nastiest 4 alternative spellings for are:
Cough, trough;
laurel, sausage