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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Is this punishment too harsh for the 'crime'?

32 replies

sandyballs · 06/01/2012 09:25

I usually support the teachers 100%, if my DD's have done wrong then they face the consequences etc etc.

However! I picked my DDs up from school yesterday, they were the last out as usual, and they dashed off to get their scooters whilst I chatted to a couple of other mums. DD1 pushed hers back to me, DD2 scooted back across the playground. I heard a teacher shouting and DD2 went over to her and I understood she was telling her off for scooting across the playground when the whole school has been told several times not to do it. Fair enough. DD2 then comes over and says she has been told not to bring her scooter to school until after half term!!

Harsh or fair? I would understand a week or two, but until half term!! My DDs are 10 and in year 6, they scooter to school with their mates every morning. DD2 had to run with them today.

OP posts:

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cornsilxksxi · 06/01/2012 09:26

harsh but fair...it's an accident waiting to happen

FebreezeYourJeans · 06/01/2012 09:36

I think a week would have been appropriate.

DeWe · 06/01/2012 09:53

Hmm. I think for a first offence then a week would be more appropriate. But maybe they warned them in assembly that would happen? In which case they need to follow it through.

In year 6 (I read it initially as age 6 where it would be harsh imo) they are often testing the boundries so sometimes they need to come down hard on them.

If her twin (I assume) was pushing it and she could see then I suspect that she knew that she shouldn't, because seeing her sister do it should have reminded her, so it's not just a case of forgetting.

Angelswings · 06/01/2012 09:56

Harsh but fair. If you want to she can scoot to the school and you then take the scooter home so that she doesn't take it into school grounds

Original poster

sandyballs · 06/01/2012 11:00

Thanks for replies, I agree at her age she should have listened to the previous warnings. It does seem a long time though.

I can't take the scooter home for her as I don't go with them.

I'm tempted to ban it for a week and then let her take it again. It's a huge school, I can't see the teacher checking up on it, it's not even DDs teacher, she's in a different building.

Although I do realise I'm giving DD a bad message with that.

OP posts:

LittenTree · 06/01/2012 11:23

That's what I'd do, too.

You can either 'fib' to DD and say that it's been reduced to a week, or, depending on her maturity. explain that you feel the teacher may have had a bad day, because she's only human, sometimes people over react a bit etc etc so you feel that a week is sufficient but she mustn't draw attention to herself by scooting across the playground etc etc.

Or, of course, you might raise it with her teacher or Head to ask if maybe they'd reconsider?

LittenTree · 06/01/2012 11:23

(Are you in Fordingbridge with that name, incidentally?!)

missnevermind · 06/01/2012 11:26

I would do the same.

My children understand that I do not always agree with their teachers, but I do try to explain myself to them.

Original poster

sandyballs · 06/01/2012 11:29

I'm not in Fordingbridge, wish I was! I've just visited Sandyballs many times.

I'll think I'll do that then, explain to DD why I'm reducing it. All this talk about leaving the car at home, walking and doing more exercise, obese kids etc and they ban her scooter for over a month!

OP posts:

LittenTree · 06/01/2012 11:41

I went to SB once, in the Wheatfield, camping ( I live about 20 miles away) and it was great!

Yes, good idea re the reduction to a week. Sometimes, though I too am a great respecter of my DC's teachers, some, especially the younger/less experienced/ childless (!) ones don't really understand the implications of casually thrown around punishments.

3duracellbunnies · 06/01/2012 13:30

If they have said that if you scoot in school you aren't allowed to bring your scooter in for the rest of half term then it is harsh but that's their rules. If it is some arbitary punishment from a teacher who had a bad day then I would either talk to head or as you say ban for a week and then let her bring it. It sounds a bit like the sort of snap punishment we have all given or wanted to give out, but then realised it was a bit mad. If they then complain then suggest they make a clear policy on what will happen if they scoot in school, assuming it was her first offence.

EdithWeston · 06/01/2012 13:39

Was it arbitrary though? You say that she has ignored previous warnings. And if it is a problem or they have had injuries from playground collisions, there may indeed have been warnings in assemblies.

And what would be the sanction if she were caught with a scooter whilst banned. Permanent ban?

As she's able to run alongside the others scooting, then I imagine the anti-obesity effect will be even greater, so at least that's a positive.

lisad123 · 06/01/2012 13:44

Im sorry, I think you need to talk to school and not teach your dd to lie or misguide teachers. She is old enough to know the rules. If you dont back her teacher up you are giving her the wrong message.
I do think till half term is harsh but i would ring the head, explaint hat you have had this information from dd, and were concerned she may have heard wrong or got wrong end as this is, in your opinion too long.

G0ldenbrown · 06/01/2012 13:49

I disagree with most of the posts here. I think if there have been repeated warnings to either individuals or the whole school then this is a perfectly reasonable consequence. I'm horrified at the idea of a parent overruling the teacher about this and the suggestion that 'childless' teachers don't understand. As a childless teacher with 4 years training and 8 years experience the idea of that is just insulting.

If your child had been hurt by a child on a scooter who had ignored this rule I bet you would be baying for blood.

LittenTree · 06/01/2012 13:51

We need to know that this is a well known rule with set, understood consequences first, don't we? The if is the important word.

Rosebud05 · 06/01/2012 14:51

I agree. Knowing that you 'shouldn't do something' is different to knowing that 'if you do x, then y will happen'.

EdithWeston · 06/01/2012 15:31

It does say in the OP that she'd been warned several times before, which means this wasn't something arbitrary.

bonkersLFDT20 · 06/01/2012 15:35

Do not undermine the school. Does you DD have any idea why the ban is for so long? You need to find out from her whether there has been repeated warnings otherwise you risk looking foolish and disrespectful.

Only if your DD has no idea why the ban is for so long then go and talk to the school (with your DD if you think it's appropriate).

Teach your DD a lesson on how to democratically discuss a difference in opinion from those in authority.

She won't do it again, that's for sure! Lesson learnt.

LadyLapsang · 06/01/2012 16:44

I would say you have two choices, make your child abide by the punishment or if you think it is inappropriate discuss the matter with the teacher privately and put your case; do not undermine the teacher. School rules apply in school and often on the journey to and from school - your child has to abide by the rules. If you can't live with that, ultimately you should find another school or home educate. Most pupils are on the receiving end of a few harsh punishments during their school career. When I have found a punishment unfair or excessive (once or twice in 14 years) I have emailed the teacher and found them very reasonable.

LittenTree · 06/01/2012 16:50

The OP says: 'the whole school has been told several times not to do it', which, as she rightly says, is 'fair enough' and assuming that her DD is not a repeat offender, i.e. has been personally warned before, has had a momentary lapse- which has earned what would appear to be a rather draconian 6 week ban! An 'I'm serious!' one week ban would surely suffice? And as for 'democratic discussion'- Mmm, doubt she'd be allowed a platform on which to do that! In some ways, one of my earlier thoughts, about discussing with her why people might appear to over-react and maybe even the 'disobeying' of the ban after a week, albeit covertly might teach a mature enough DC about 'the ways of the world'?

And it doesn't appear that the school are likely to see the ban through via vigilance, does it? Which is almost worse!

You see, the problem can be that if the punishment fails to match the crime, a DC can walk away not so much with 'lesson learned' as with a newly kindled distrust of authority. DCs need consistency and they have a keenly developed sense of 'fair play'.

FWIW my DS1's secondary merely 'nod' towards some sort of student input into school business via a school council. The deputy head (who is A Woman To Be Reckoned With) admitted that, when she received the results of a poll regarding what the DCs thought was 'fair' and 'unfair', she was shocked when she discovered how deeply resented 'whole class' detention was. DCs wrote that they all felt 'criminalised' by it and it shook their faith in the fairness of their teachers. This was Y7s (in a well disciplined school), so maybe not yet necessarily needing to learn the 'life lesson' that life is unfair. They need school to be a safe and trustworthy place, where the laws of their universe are obeyed and punishment is transparent and fairly applied, not some place where someone with authority can arbitrarily impose whatever they please on a child on an apparent whim- and possibly with no tangible checks and balances system in place. I am sorry if I appear to be over egging this, I am just trying to make a point with an illustration!

bigTillyMint · 06/01/2012 16:55

She is in Y6. I think it is reasonable to expect her to do as she and the rest of the school have been repeatedly asked. Plus as a Y6, she is setting an example to the younger children,

A month does sound a tad harsh - it was probably said without a proper thinking through, but you should not just go against what the teacher said. It teachers your DD completely the wrong attitude.

Talk to the teacher and explain how the ban will make it difficult for her to get to/from school and ask if it could be reduced to a week because of this.

sashh · 07/01/2012 05:20

I think the punishment was harsher because you were there, you obviously know the rule as does your other child but you didn't tell her not to scoot.

Also is this the only time, or was she given a one week ban at break, another at lunchtime and this was a final one?

Wellthen · 07/01/2012 20:08

younger/less experienced/ childless (!) ones don't really understand the implications of casually thrown around punishments

As all three of those terrible things you list I take great offence at this. How dare you suggest some of us are not good at our jobs simply due to age, experience or whether or not we have children. Having a child does not make you an expert on children - surely things like super nanny are testament to that?

Teacher's are supposed to be experts at dealing with children IN SCHOOL - this may not always fit with how you personally would have delt with the situation.

Secondly you are basically saying that you only respect teachers sometimes? So you just stop respecting someone because you dont agree? Is that what the child should do, only sometimes listen to teachers? Or doctors? Or police officers? Or in fact anyone they come across?

I agree the punishment is harsh and I do feel things like this should only happen if that specific child is told more than once. But it may have been a 'the next person who soots across the playground...' situation and the OPS child happened to be that person.

Punishments are never casually thrown around. Teachers are not sadists. I know lots of people on here have had bad experiences and Im not saying all teachers are great at their jobs or even great people. But we have trained for our jobs and are constantly monitored. We work hard and are passionate about what we do. The lack of respect for our proffession has a lot to do with why we have to deal with 'my Dad says I dont have to listen to you', 'you cant make me I have rights' and general lack of interest in the classroom.

Disclaimer: Im not suggesting anyone on this thread has children who do this.

MigratingCoconuts · 07/01/2012 20:20

I strongly advise against reducing the time of the ban.

What message is this sending to your DD?

And also, what if she does get caught out by the teachers? Are you prepared for the consequences of that??

samstown · 07/01/2012 21:05

We have had this scooter problem in our school. There is a ban on scooters in the playground at dropping off/ home time for safety reasons. It has been in the newsletter countless times and the children have been told time and again in assembly not to scoot across the playground.

And yet, the parents stand there chatting away whilst their children scoot around at incredible speed. One teacher told one of the kids not to scoot and then as soon as she went back inside the parent just told the child to get back on, dont worry about what the teacher says! In fact we even saw one of the parents themselves scooting around! It really is not nice for teachers to be undermined in this way.

Please do not just tell your daughter that she can have the scooter back after a week and completely disregard the punishment. If you have an issue with it then thats fine, but take it up with the teacher/head in private and not in front of your daughter. When kids see their own parents showing a lack of respect for teachers, what message does that send?

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