Support for a strong reader

[longrob]

Hi all, I'm new here.

Our son shows signs of being quite strong in reading and numeracy. He started reception in September. My concerns lie mainly with his reading, since I am a mathematician myself. The school sends home 2 books every day and they are changed twice a week if he can read them. The "problem" is that he masters them on the first day, and so he isn't being challenged much at all, and quickly finds them boring. His teacher said he is already on the most advanced books she can give him at this stage, that she can't change them more than twice a week since the children only read them twice a week to her on fixed days, and advised that he should not read the school books every day, and instead we could take out books from the public library, which we've done (using a different publisher/system to the one they use at school). He has really enjoyed this over the holidays (to the point where, on Christmas day, he was upset that we couldn't go get him some new books). A family friend, who is a primary school teacher suggested caution because letting him get too far ahead at this stage might have unforseen consequences, such as losing interest in school or interfering with the structured way they teach phonics in the school. She thought that he is reading at around level 6 or 7 now, which is the expected level for the end of the year, but she advised it would be better to urge the school to give him more support.

It bothers me to think that he may be being held back by the school in an effort to homogenise the level of the class. I've had this discussion with the school and while they acknowledge that he is doing better than average at the moment, there isn't any more they can do at this time. They stressed that children learn at different rates and go though spurts and plateaus and it was ill-advised to make judgements within the first term of reception.

Our "schedule" is that we do about 10-15 mins reading every day after dinner. At weekends we do 10-15 mins after breakfast and 10-15 mins after dinner.

I'd be grateful for any general advice/comments and in particular for any suggestions for the best way we can support our son's development.

Thanks
LR

Your friend is talking rubbish.

Keep letting him read whatever he wants from the library. Don't worry how far ahead of the scheme he gets.

School will be stretching him, even if they're sending home easy books. For example in guided reading he might get harder questions than other kids in his group.

He might be reading stuff on the board or on worksheets which others aren't. Herelight be reading books from the book corner during free play....

He's exposed o print all the time. At home, and at school. Once you can read you cant stop yourself from reading......

You'll find lots of help here at MN, the situation your describing is often discussed.

Briefly my view would be to :

a- ignore anyone who says to limit your child on the basis they may get bored later on - utter nonsense, a good school will stretch all children.

b-school reading books being changed / child being heard read at school - if it doesn't suit you and your child then make up and stick to your own system, many parents waste so much effort trying to change school systems to suit them, really not worth it, with a bright and enthusiastic reader do it yourself.

c-if you can then look at spending some money on reading, there are lots of resources, the reading chest, jolly phonics readers books, there are loads that you can work through that will help ensure all the letter sounds and di-graphs, tri-graphs what not are covered.

Ignore your family friend.

Let your son read whatever he wants to - non-fiction, fiction, 'graded scheme books', books on a topic that interests him that may be aimed at much older readers, children's newspapers such as 'First Times' (or if he is keen on a subject in particular, the relevant section of an adult newspaper), longer fiction books that he might read pagfe and page about with him, familiar picture books that you read to him as a younger child but that he can now read to himself, the back of the cereal packet....anything.

Then in school, as Indigo suggests, he should be getting much more structured reading (preferably as a planned 'group reading' session working towards a specific target e.g. using voices for different characters but sometimes as individual reading) which works on his 'next steps'. Remember that these 'next steps' are not always to do with 'decoding harder and harder words - they could be based on comprehension, inference, getting information from a non-fiction text, using punctuation to guide expression etc etc.

DS was a fluent reader on arrival at school. After a fairly brief period of adjustment, the school just fed his love of reading and encouraged him to read not only a variety of scheme and non-scheme books in school but also out of school. He still had daily phonics teaching - but work for him was differentiated to focus on 'encoding' (writing / spelling) skills using the new phonemes and graphemes rather than on using phonics for 'decoding'.

www.pearsonschoolsandfecolleges.co.uk/Primary/GlobalPages/ChristmasChallengeParents2011/ChristmasChallenge2011.aspx

www.oxfordowl.co.uk/FindBook

Ignore your friend let him read what he wants a good teacher will be overjoyed to have him in their class. Him being ahead will have no effect on how they teach phonics he still needs this input for spelling and social development.

Thank you very much for all your replies. It's very helpful indeed and sets my mind at rest !

Am interested in the maths side too, here I'm responsible for HE for a group of community children for maths, you seem nice and confident in your ability to help him stretch his maths, would love to know if your thinking of following any particular route ?

Seconding everyone else here in saying that a good school will cope with a very able reader and that it does not matter at all how far ahead he is as long as his progress is based on skills built solidly. And that he carries on loving reading, of course!

Both my DDs were like this and still are and their perfectly ordinary local state schools have coped without any trouble whatsoever.

@RosemaryandThyme, thanks for your message regarding maths, though I don't think I can offer you much useful info. I don't follow any particular route. My strategy is to encourage mental arithmetic and attention to detail, alongside systematic problem solving and abstract thinking. I have a fairly controversial idea in that I believe it is possible and ultimately very beneficial to introduce quite advanced concepts at relatively early level; such as complex numbers and what "infinity" means. The rationale is that these topics are often quite difficult for older children to come to terms with because they go against what has been learned previously, and in a sense, some un-learning is needed to remove this blockage before they can be properly appreciated. With much younger children, assuming they have assimilated some prerequisite knowledge, these blockages won't be present. You may have heard Brian Cox saying essentially the same thing recently on TV about quantum mechanics.

DD's reading books also get changed twice a week in Reception, although she doesn't read in class that often - they seem to wait until I've written in her contact book that she's finished it.

She's also (after a period of settling in etc) been moved up the reading scheme they use until they've caught up with her and are now providing books at about the right level (about 2 years ahead of expected YR level). There's been no suggestion that she'll get bored, or that she's being held back to allow others to catch up.

She still does phonics with the rest of her class, but as PPs said she is meant to use this to help with encoding rather than decoding so much.

Having said all that, she didn't have a school reading book for the holidays, and has instead decided that her favourite books in the whole world are the interminable Rainbow Magic ones so I, for one, am looking forward to her starting back next week and getting random school ones instead :o

I agree with Indigo.

My ds was also quite far ahead of the rest of the class when he was in infants, and the teachers at the time also told us that there is only so much that they can do at school. But we were strongly encouraged to use the library and read at whatever pace he wated to read at.

The only things they told us to remember were that we should make sure that he fully understood everything he was reading, because he could read some quite complicated words beautifully, without knowing what they meant. It was definitely something to watch out for, because the books he was reading were aimed at older children. Make it interesting by asking him about how he thinks characters might be feeling, get him to make up his own endings, or get him to suggest what would happen if you change details of the story.

We also found it good to get ds reading things that weren't in books. Things like comics and magazines, or instruction leaflets that came with his toys. Even the cooking instructions on food and in recipes work well. It's just a way of introducing the idea that reading isn't just for stories, it can be informative too, and taking in and following what is being read is just as important as being able to 'sound out' words easily.

My DD (also in reception) was bringing home level 11 books before they decided the scheme books were ahead the comprehension of her level. They now completely trust me to decide which books she should be reading and are happy for me to send them in her reading folder. She also goes to year 2 for her phonics lessons which has done miracles for her. As for her maths she can now do her 2, 10 and 3 times tables (not her 5's strangely) but school are happy for her to stay in reception for maths lessons as there are a few others who are on a par with her which is brilliant!

I'd let school know what your DS is capable of...borrow books from the library, buy him books from cheap book shops/online and let him fly

Hi Longrob:

I was in a somewhat similar situation - books were not changed enough (we were once a week (ideally) to once every 2-3 weeks (usually). Fortunately my DDs weren't high flyers - but nonetheless they grew bored of the books very quickly.

Many on Mumsnet suggested get yourself to a library or indeed suggested on-line books/ or just good books for that age group.

In general many seem to do a bit of the school book, but as their DC gets a bit bored/ fed-up they move on to reading other books.

book lists:

Use bookfinder on Booktrust: www.booktrust.org.uk/resources/

Words for life has advice & recommended reading by age: www.wordsforlife.org.uk/

Kidsread has reading lists of the 'classics' of children literature:
www.kidsreads.com/lists/classic-lists.asp

The Guardian had a lovely insert a while ago on building a children's library: www.guardian.co.uk/books/series/building-a-children-s-library

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I should add that reading isn't just about mastering saying (sounding out) what is on the page - but understanding the layout of a book (so where to find author, illustrator, index, table of contents, glossary, etc...), punctuation, grammar, imagining (i.e. alternative endings or what happens next) and retelling. So it may be worthwhile to discuss a bit about what is happening in the book. Certainly some of the guided reading books (ORT & BIG CAT) coming home from our school often have suggested exercises at the back of the book. If the reading bit is getting a bit boring - you may consider trying some of these activities.

It is useful (although this sometimes can be a struggle) to try out all sorts of different genre (so fiction and non-fiction books). Within fiction to try out a range of different stories - adventure, mystery, fantasy, science fiction, etc...

We found by reading the school book for a few nights until my DDs 'got it' and then doing a few activities, but going on to read our own books after that, defnitely helped keep us sane.

We also still read to my girls (now 6 and 9) - currently working through Lemony Snicket - but we've read Charlotte's Web, The Hobbit and a Christmas Carol this year. I'm sure eventually they won't want to read with Mum and Dad - but while they are willing we do, mainly because we enjoy this quiet family time at the end of a long day.

Hope that helps.

Interesting... my dd age 7 was assessed at reading age 12 and the school told me they were "capping" her reading age and would not be testing any higher. I didn't actually ask why, just thought "oh" in a negligent sort of a way. It seemed to me that she could read anything she chose no matter what school regimes were in place.

It sounds as though you are doing wonderful work with your little boy, he obviously adores reading and that really is the secret, to build that lifetime habit.

Reading at home and reading at school a two different things. School reading books and guided reading and so on aree all about the techniques, comprehension, how books work, how writers write, why they use this word, not that word- all the "theory". Hoe Reqding is different- it doesn"5 matter if you don't completely understand what you're reading so long as you enjoy it. So get him as many books from as many sources as you can, charity shops, library, supermarket - wherev and let him loose with them. No questioning, no pedagogy- just wallowing in books.

Oh, and read, read, read to him. And let him see you read- and more importantly, let him see the men in your life read for pleasure.

Yes Yes Yes !!!

Your view is so very much what our community here are striving for, we have children as young as four who fully understand minus numbers for example, and can add and deduct (though not multiply or divide minus numbers yet) with ease, children of five who confidently work out perimetre and area calulations when cutting wood for projects, three year olds who can demonstrate and explain volume through their pouring and sifting activities, today our six year olds are using the twelve times table to calculate the number of slabs needed to construct stone-henge and making their construction out of clay - some of the children also attend school, we have been so lucky because school recognise that our bunch are able so they are taught in the years above their age groups and are invited to hop into classes further along the school when there is a maths related topic going on that they might enjoy (small school very flexible).
It is also assumed that children have no difficulty in understanding and using correct terminology - which sometimes makes them sound a bit bright, and can anoy other parents if ours try to explain a concept to another child - have had to train one of mine to hold back and let the teacher explain !

Most of my Y2 (6-7 years old) class last year knew all their tables and could instantly answer any question involving multiplication or division facts and use them creatively. Some children were working with negative numbers although not many ... in a standard state primary school.

I just wanted to suggest this series for a level 6-7 reader, which my DD has just started. There appears to be loads of them!!

magic tree house

they were originally published in the USA its worth checking you have the English versions.

Arr peace Mrz, not saying HE or school preferable, just that children can pick up maths concepts a lot more easily than parents often adults think, thats' all, not being anti-teachers in any way.

Passes olive branch.

I'm not saying one system is better than any other (it depends on needs of the child IMHO) but whoever is teaching the child needs to challenge them. Sorry if I came across defensive.

I keep seeing on MN (and honestly I don't see it elsewhere - well not in the last 20 years) that teachers can't move children on, or they can't give them a higher book, or they want to send them to another class... teachers should be prepared to meet the needs of all their pupils!

I see what you mean, I just wonder sometimes if the comments come from parents expecting too much.

I sometimes read these threads as the parents giving up responsibility and requiring teaches to go to very long lengths to individulise the school day for each child.
It's as though parents will do lots of things with their children until they start school, but then hand them over to school and want the school to be totally responsible for their education.

The reading level complaints really irk me - but from a different persepctive than yours, I think that no matter how good a school were to be at stretching children there would still be parents who compare children and blame teachers if their child isn't learning at the same rate as another.

I think the parent persepctive should be " It's my responsibility to teach my child to read, write, problem solve etc (just as it is to teach manners, sharing, toilet train etc) - if a regular child rolls out of primary unable to read at age 11, personally I'd be blaming the parents.

I agree with most replies - let him read anything he's interested in. The only caution I would add is the understanding aspect. My dd1 was very quick to pick up reading and (being new parents) we were just pleased that she kept reading the new books easily. However, with hindsite, we should have questioned her more as now, in year 5, she reads the words but I don't think she takes it in very well and so doesn't enjoy reading anymore. My dd2 wasn't as quick to pick it up but understood everything much better. She now enjoys books more than her big sister. We now have dd3 in reception picking it up really well and reading way above her peers but I am keeping a careful check on her understanding. I don't want to make the same mistakes again. Her teacher has given us a work book and she draws a picture and writes a couple of sentences about each book to make sure she followed the story. Sorry for the ramble and hope that helps!

Agree with the teachers!! In my opinion parents who are not prepared to put the work / effort into their children shouldn't have them. Strong I know but I work with 13 - 17 year olds who struggle to read and write and behave simply, because they have parents who haven't followed through on their responsibilities. I do my best to give quality time for my son and regards to reading I would read with him about six hours a week or on average a (good size) book a week. He took to phonics easily in school and from very early primary 2 (think that is your year 1) he was purple level.
He now nearly 7 and can read (with expression) and pronounce pretty much anything. Keep reading to him, encourage them to take a page to read or a chapter etc. loads of books to read for 5-7 year olds which they will understand. I started with the earlier books of Roald Dahl in what you call your reception year. Followed on by books by guy bass, mr gum and the never ending beast quest series (soooo many beast quest!!!). Never really did the educational books left them for the teachers and of course for homework. Trying now to encourage him to read on his own but at present he's not having any of it!!! Reading to them makes all the difference and sets them up well for the years ahead.

With respect not all parents feel confident enough to help their child. They may not be good readers themselves but that doesn't make them bad parents. I see parent support as a huge bonus not an entitlement.

Never - very strong words indeed. I'm tempted to reply that anyone who thinks its all the parents fault shouldn't be working with kids.

How on earth do you know it's the parents fault? How do you know the kids don't have dyslexia or asd or ADHD - which noone diagnosed because they assumed it was all the parents fault?

How do you know it wasn't the primary schools 'fault'?

How do you know the parents werent doing the absolute best they could - which may well be less then you can due to all sorts of reasons. Poverty. Illiteracy. Multiple jobs. Ill health.

Yes, very tempted to say you shouldn't work with kids if you're going to be so judgemental.