Head lying etc

[cirrhosis]

DD and DS (twins) have started in Y6 a few months ago at a popular primary school. DD is very brainy, DS is a bit dim but very endearing. (Trying to get appointment with EP for him.) There are three groups. Bottom and top taught by head, middle taught by head. DD is in top, DS bottom. I noticed that DS always had more homework and didn't like school (kept pretending to be sick) and asked DD why. DD said head only let DS's group have maths, english and a bit of science, but nothing else, because she wanted their group to catch up and get good SATs results. Other subjects she regarded as 'fluffy'.

Heard from DS a few weeks ago that head told class that SATs were the 'most important tests you will ever get' and that the bottom group wasn't trying hard enough. I got mad then because I regard the CATs (tests the secondary school gives to set the pupils) as more important. I told DD and DS to boycott the SATS when they were given them. I'm not sure if this was a good idea or not.

I don't know how the head found out, but recently she made another class announcement. It went roughly along the lines of this:

I have heard that someone's parent has told their children (looks suspiciously at DD and DS) to hand in blank SATs papers. This is a terrible idea. You must not listen to these silly fabrications. What do you think will happen when your next school reads your results? They won't let you stay! So don't listen to your parents, do the right thing and work hard for your test marks. I want a Level 5, 4b at least from all of you.

I don't know what I should do now. How will DS cope? How did she find out?Should I have a war quiet chat with head? Do I take DD and DS out and put them in another school?

do you take your children's words for everything that happens at school or do you ever discuss things with the staff

Where is the Head lying?

If you want your children to boycott the SATs, then keep them off on the day of the exams or ask for them to remain in school but not sit them.

FWIW, I think SATs are a big pile of steaming shite.

What level is your DS currently working at?

Can I ask why they have just started at this school? Have you recently moved? I'm not sure I would move them again, TBH.

The head is lying about the next school not letting them stay if their SATs results are low, and about the tests being the most important you will ever face.

I didn't think SATS were a requirement, and I didn't understand that children could be refused a school place if they had not sat their SATS. I'm also intrigued by the logic that SATS are "the most important test you will ever get". They might be for the school, but for the pupils??? I always figured that, generally, the last set of qualifications were the most likely to affect your future life by impacting on your job prospects. I doubt many companies looking at employing graduates will be overly concerned by SATS results from Y6...

Have you seen evidence that DS is only doing Maths, English and Science?

Have you talked to the Head in person?
I'm a bit confused as to why you only seemed to have talked to your DD about why your DS is unhappy - have you asked DS as well?
Doesn't the school have to follow the National Curriculum for all pupils - which I understood to be significantly broader than those 3 subjects .

If your DD has correctly understood the way the head is teaching the lower group then I would be extremely concerned - but I'd want to make sure there wasn't a misunderstanding before escalating those concerns within the LA.

National Curriculum tests (SATs) are compulsory parents can't withdraw their child from the tests. If they are absent their "results" are included in the school's overall statistics which for some schools can mean the difference between being a good school and a failing school...it's insane!

"I didn't understand that children could be refused a school place if they had not sat their SATS."

They can't. Tis bolleaux.

It sounds a bit of a storm in a teacup to me. IME secondary schools don't take that much notice of SATS. They are ridiculous IMO - only important for league tables.

I never bothered to discuss SATS with any of mine - just told them they were a bit like puzzles, and to just do them and not worry about it.

WRT your other concerns, I think it would have been better to make an appointment to discuss your DS's progress/difficulties with the appropriate teacher (The Head, if she is his teacher), leaving the SATS out of it.

I would never tell my DC to deliberately undermine their teachers though. Any argument I had with the school would be between me and the School IYSWIM.

Agree with slovenly. Children's interpretations are not reliable. Always confirm with teacher or HT about stuff before getting in a tizz.

When my kids were as young as yours I was as stressed as you
but as I and they have got older I have realised the utter truth in what my DH has picked up from visits to hundreds of schools

Infants is about socialising
Juniors is about opening the mind
Secondary is about learning

those effing tables have made us think that little Timmy should be at a level at age 4 / 6 / 8 / 10 (take your pick)
when in fact all that really matters is

good self awareness
self confidence (beyond reality in public school kids)
communication skills

So how about the mothers who are bright enough to have picked a password for mumsnet stop playing the game and work on supporting their own children rather than constantly slagging off others

d'oh
the Mail would never approve and MN is an unexpurgated DM after all

ask for them to remain in school but not sit them.

The school cannot legally do that, tethers.

Sorry, my mistake.

Obviously the head of the primary school is only interested in their school and as such is striving to get the very best from every pupil. There is nothing wrong with that, what is wrong is making it so apparent to the pupils that everything is focused on these one set of tests. Saying that everybody must get a 4b is simply unacceptable because it has set up some pupils to fail, which they probably haven't because they will have made great strides whilst in the school.And the head must know that the comments about the school not letting pupils stay if they do not do the SAT tests is complete rubbish. Did the school do the SATs tests in 2010 when many schools boycotted the test?

I think that you do need to find out more, possibly from other parents and from the school before you go and confront the head over this, you cannot just believe everything that your daughter says but on the other hand if you can substantiate the comments made, somebody does have to raise it with the head and make them understand how much anxiety they are transfering to the pupils .

This year SATS can be sat over a whole week. So they'd have to be sick for a whole week to miss the SATS.

But the problem isn't the SATS exam. It's the over preparation for them.

If they were sick for that week in May - they'll still have a rubbish time from now till then.

I don't know what the answer is to this one. But it does not sound if things aren't very good for your DS. :(

cirrhosis

OK it sounds like you don't really like the idea of SATs but also that your DCs school is really focusing on the subjects examined for the lower achieving groups.

I can understand that from your perspective you just see that your DS is getting more work (which he doesn't enjoy and possibly is struggling with) and your DD seems to be just floating.

mrz is correct - the SATs are required nationally and any absences will be marked as fails and included in calculations of the school's average result. Now this may not matter to you at all - but to the school this could result in a lower overall average than is necessary - and more importantly low results at KS2 often mean parents opt to go to the school with better results, if at all possible.

Is the school/ Head putting too much emphasis on this - possibly - but who knows what pressures she/ he is under. She may have agreed to turn these declining SATs around at this school and feels the last thing she needs is for parents to boycott the SATs. She/ He is also probably more than justified in feeling the school is judged by those scores.

I think some of the people posting are correct - in the scheme of things SAT results are not the be all and end all. But taking the exam will capture how your children were doing on the days of the exam this May - and that could be useful information for you but more importantly will be for their next school, which most likely will use this data to initially stream Y7 children.

I know it's very hard to go along with something that you don't particularly support or agree with. As many have said (some quite colourfully) - the SATs have their flaws, but it is a way of asking schools to ensure that a minimum standard of learning is achieved (L4 at end of KS2 in reading, writing and arithmetic), which at the end of the day, as a parent, I'm sure you would want for your children.

The problem of teaching to the test is well recognised but SATs seem here for the duration - so perhaps it's best to see them as a benchmark of your children's ability at the end of Y6 and a test of the school's ability to perform their duty to educate all children (within reason) to Level 4 or better. And if you haven't researched what Level 4 means - have a look here: www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/SATS.html#do - I found this a while ago when I first encountered SATs at KS1.

neither of my children did ANYTHING after Easter of year 6 other than daily SATs practice
pretty darned boring for kids who hit high level 5 in year 5

abolish the darned things

I have to say I admire my DC's school hugely.

DS is in Year 6.

He did a set of 'mock' SATs papers during the first week of the Autumn term and ... er... that's it. I suspect that he may do one more set at the beginning of each of the two remaining terms, or perhaps just one at the start of the summer, but otherwise they just get on with normal teaching and learning and lots of special 'Year 6' stuff (like having a secondary maths teacher in to teach some of them every fortnight etc etc).

Their SATs results aren't 'the best in the area', but their general education is fabulously good.

Teacher - my kids school is like you describe. They spend all afternoon doing creative curriculum - same as every other year. Do maths and english in the mornings - same as every other year. Have been on several trips last term. Done one mock sats at beginning of year - but again every year does tests at beginning of term. And the kids are under no pressure from school to achieve a particular grade in sats ( although some are under pressure from parents )
As with all years they know their current targets and what they need to do to improve.

Ok.yes, toommuch SATS practice is deadly boring- and sensible schoolsmdon't do it. But.

They are doing Maths nd English when they are doing this practice- it's not some other separate subject called SATS that has no bearing on anything else. And I am puzzled that the same parents can say "They really aren't getting down to anynprope work" in thenlower years, then get pissed off when they do in year 6!
And o course the school should be as many children get to qlt least level 4b as possible- for the good of the school, yeas, but also because that isa pretty basic level of attainment in literacy and numeracy- who wouldn't want their child to know that stuff?

And of course it's insane to tell children that theynwon't be allowed into secondary school if they don't sit them - and I would be amazed if the Head actually said that- but some secondary schools do set children initially on day 1 by SATS results. And it's easier if your're in the right set from the beginning.

So they are important ( and just in case anyone does a search I hqve changed my mind on this one!). But practice should not blight year 6. But don't necessarily believe children when they say how blighted it is- year 6 generally sometimes comes as a shock- pariculqrly to children who have found things easy up to then.

Erm what!? Infants is about socialising? Sorry but am I mistaken in teaching my
Year one class to read and write! What rubbish.

Op, chill out. Tell your children to try their best.

Well I've been on a training course today and the message was that KS3 don't have a hope if they haven't been taught well for the previous seven years!

I will probably get a lot of stick of this but it is baffling to read about parents encouraging their kids to disregard those in positions of authority or not to put in the effort for SATs etc. The main reason for going to school is the academics and how else can what has been learnt be tested.

It may actually help a lot of our kids if more parents actually encouraged their children to see assessments as important and strive to excel in everything they did.

Re encouraging kids to disregard those in authority, it depends on the child.

My dd1 had a couple of years of dire teachers when if I hadn't pointed out that her teachers were at fault not her, her confidence would have been zero (one teacher picked on her for being bored...because the lesson was boring. But she is v sensitive and could be relied on to understand it did not relate to all teachers and that this knowledge did not give carte blanche fo rudeness in lessons.

Ds currently has a poor teacher - but i wouldn't dream of sharing this with im as he wouldn't understand and it would upset him to think the authority figure was not all-knowing. Or he might be rude.

So it depends.

What happened to all the dc in 2010 whose Primary school's boycotted the SATS tests? Did all of them get refused a place at Secondary? No? It's total bollocks. Mind you, I insisted DD did her SATS, despite still working on 'p' scales - because then her result would HAVE to be included in the school's league table result, to show what a bad job they had done on dealing with her SN. .

Hunty - If a child is working below a L3, they don't need to sit the SAT tests - but their results are still recorded as part of the school's results.

They don't record them as a P though, just as a 'N' - working below level 3.

Is your DD at a special school now?