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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

If your child's primary got it's worst SATS in years & plummeted down the league tables would you expect a letter from the Head?

53 replies

Artichohohohokes · 17/12/2011 08:00

Our primary got awful Y6 SATS. Worst ever. It went from near the top of the Borough to near the bottom. I only know this from the news, there has been no communication with parents although I know it was discussed at the recent Govenors meeting.

AIBU to think the Head would have done well to write to all existing parents acknowledging what has happened and reassuring us investigations are under way to try and ensure this is a one off blip? No communication on the issue is odd. Isn't the Head scared that parents will panic & consider other options?

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DoesntChristmasDragOn · 17/12/2011 08:01

Maybe they don't know what to say. I do agree that no communication is a bit strange - a simple "we are looking into it" kind of thing perhaps?

Feenie · 17/12/2011 08:07

They won't need to look into it, they will know exactly why. Every cohort is different, and sometimes you get a year group who started much lower that is usual on entry to the school, or have lots of SEN, or have recently arrived EAL children. Have you looked at the progress percentage? If the progress and the results are poor, then that would be more of a worry. But even Ofsted only draw conclusions from 3 year trends, not one year blips.

Finallygotaroundtoit · 17/12/2011 08:09

Depends on how you regard league tables as a reflection of the school

Are you happy with school and more importantly is your child? If yes, then I don't see s problem

gazzalw · 17/12/2011 08:14

Surely the SATs really reflect the quality of the children taking the test? Maybe the previous years had loads of really clever children without any special needs and all with English as their first language?

Our school fluctuates wildly with SATS results and I never really think it's to do with the teaching but the children. But having said that some schools do seem very consistent so not sure (not being a teacher myself) although I have heard it said that some schools do nothing but teach to getting very good SATS results in Year 6 to the detriment of any other kind of learning....
Last year's Year 6 at DCs school had loads of very bright children in it (five got into superselective grammars) and the rest of the class were bright too but I noticed that the school still only came half way down the local League Table (and this is a bit strange because about 12 of the schools had boycotted the SATS and weren't originally listed but somehow miraculously had managed to come higher than DCs school nevertheless)
Now that DCs are older and I have come to see the vagaries of the system I actually put less store by the League Tables. Again about 1/2 of DS's year were getting Level 5s at the end of Year 5. I would therefore really expect them to shine (especially as again they already have four who have passed 11+ for superselective with a possibility of another one or two in the bag come January) but I don't hold out that much hope...
Why don't you write a letter to the Governors of the school and just ask the question of them....as I said there could be a very logical reason for the 'blip' - are you sure the SATS weren't boycotted at your school!
Would be interested to hear what the issues were though!
Good luck!

Feenie · 17/12/2011 08:16

SATs were only boycotted in 2010, with legal protection of the unions. A state school would not be permitted to do this again unless the circumstances were the same.

Original poster

Artichohohohokes · 17/12/2011 08:29

To the person who "biscuited" can I just point out I did not say SATS were the be all and end all. I just think it warrants remark when consistently high results change. I also think it's hard to pin alot on whether I am happy and DD is happy with the school. DD us happy but she us only five and generally she is happy about life so I can't imagine her having issues with anything but the worst school. She is doing well but then I think she is naturally bright & we do lot if supported learning at home. I have no school to compare it with, and see nothing of the teaching.

I know the reasons the Govenors discussed. I just think it would have been good to communicate them. Last year's Y6 had a huge churn, lots of kids coming and going. It's a huge mixed inner city school so this posed real challenges.

Another top performing school in the Borough is very vocal about minimising churn. Because it is great and has a partially privileged intake the Gead makes a bug deal with prospective parents about not using it as a pre-prep and moving kids at 7. She explains the risks such an approach poses to the school & asks prospective parents to consider the wider community before accepting a place they know they intend to use only for a few years. I am not sure our school's churn is down to a similar problem. I have no idea why churn was so high last year, but a little communication on the issue would be comforting. The Head is relatively new and her predessor built the school from poor to Outstanding.

OP posts:

lljkk · 17/12/2011 08:46

yanbu. I know our school has been trumpeting very loudly about rising SATs in recent years!!

lljkk · 17/12/2011 08:47

ps: would you tell us the actual Results, OP? I bet they're still better than DC school (most years).

exoticfruits · 17/12/2011 08:51

They merely have a year group that isn't very good! The school are the same. I have been a supply teacher and been to a school that came top-they had parents who wanted places on the strength of that which was very strange. As they said-it would be entirely different the next year because they just happened to have a very strong year 6 and the year 5's were especially weak.

There is absolutely no need for the school to write a letter. What are they supposed to say '2011 yrs 6 were not very bright!!'

Anyone who chooses a school based on SATs results is mad. It tells you nothing. They might even just be good at teaching to the test. (I know because as a supply teacher I have done one-to-one teaching to the test)

Original poster

Artichohohohokes · 17/12/2011 09:02

The thong is I know the Head told the Govenors that they might have done better with last year's yr 6 if they had differentiated ability groups earlier and done it for more of the lessons. So it's not merely a case of "they were weak, there is nothing that could have been done." The Head has some ideas so why not reassure us by sharing them, or at least acknowledging she is thinking about whether there is anything they could have done differently?

I will look up the figures again lljkk, I have forgotten them!

OP posts:

Original poster

Artichohohohokes · 17/12/2011 09:03

Oops, not the thong, the thing, thankfully thongs have nothing to do with this!

OP posts:

CrotchFlakes · 17/12/2011 09:12

We are in a similar position - drop of ~10 points and now lower than a nearby school with appalling reputation. Absolutely zero comment from (newish) head.
I don't want to drag the kids out of there but would appreciate some acknowledgment.

exoticfruits · 17/12/2011 09:12

In other words if they had 'taught to the test' they would have done better! Well done to the Head for not doing it.

IndigoBell · 17/12/2011 09:16

You just have to trust the school that they are addressing it.

It won't be news to them. They'll have known for years that this years Y6 was significantly weaker than last years Y6.

I'm a governor and I know which of our years is the weakest and exactly what the school is doing specifically for that cohort.

I guess if you want to know stuff like this you have to become a governor :)

onceinawhile · 17/12/2011 09:18

So exoticfruits are you saying that if say nearly half of the children do not reach level 4, in reality they have received a fantastic education and parents should not worry about it?

rabbitstew · 17/12/2011 09:20

Why don't you just ask for a copy of the minutes of the relevant governors' meeting if you're so desperate to know? I don't see why a school should send out a detailed letter, explaining the behavioural and learning difficulties of a whole year group, the number of low-performing children joining the school late from other schools, the extra support lessons and strategies they put in place and what the school thinks it could have done better and how it has learnt from the experience.... to the entire cohort of parents at the school just on the basis of one year's results. That's just ludicrous.

IndigoBell · 17/12/2011 09:23

Once - exotic is not saying that at all. What we are all saying is that you can't tell whether the results are good or not unless you know the circumstances of every child.

The secondary round me with the best GCSE pass mark got absolutely slated by OFSTED for not doing very well with their cohort. They took in kids who were well above average, and turned out kids who were above average.

exoticfruits · 17/12/2011 09:25

It depends on where they started from onceinawhile. Quite possibly they have a lot of SN.
I was employed to to push them into level 4, and did it in all but one case.However, I am not sure that I agree with it.
It was very much a case of 'to get a level 4 you need to.........'
I also wasn't too keen on teaching fractions etc 'because they needed it for Sats' when they didn't have a firm grip on place value.
For the short term the school got what they wanted 'level 4's' for the long term the DCs would have been better with a lower level and a firm foundation of basics to build on.
One of my reasons for leaving teaching.

StupidLikeButton · 17/12/2011 09:30

No I would not. My DDs private prep got a bad lot last year but we all knew it was due to a spcific year group...there were a lot of SEN in the year and a lot of younger kids...and a high number of them were very strong performers who had put most of their energy into audtioning for the local arts based private secondary...we got no letter. We were happy with the care and progress of our DC.

onceinawhile · 17/12/2011 09:36

I am being devil's advocate here but I do think that there are times when it could signal something wrong with the school.

According to Ofsted our school has children who typically start well above average, no English as a foreign language, no churn, etc and suddenly results dipped to one third of children not achieving level 4. I do see that it might be just down to cohorts, but as a parent you do worry there is more to it.

A letter from the Head probably not appropriate but I have thought of approaching governors to find out whether I should worry!

onceinawhile · 17/12/2011 09:38

exoticfruits, I understand and see your point, that is a terrible way of achieving the figures!!

JWIM · 17/12/2011 09:46

OP I am curious that you know what took place at a Governing Body meeting, assuming the Minutes of that meeting have yet to be approved at which point they are a public document. Governing Body discussions are confidential.

IndigoBell · 17/12/2011 09:56

Once - it is totally possible your schools not very good. Rather than looking at how many kids got level 4, look at the value add score. If its one of the lowest in the borough your school may well have problems.

It is very hard to find out if your school is good or not - or even the more relevant question - is it good for your child.

Parents of y5 and y6 children have the most knowledge - ask them what they think of the school.

mrz · 17/12/2011 10:09

No I wouldn't expect a letter from the head. I'm actually one of those terrible parents who never looked at SAT results (except for my own children's level) once in the 11 years period when I had children in primary school.

Merle · 17/12/2011 10:15

I'd be really cross if our Head wrote on a newsletter, or in a letter, if what was being said was that the Y6s from last year were less able/SEN/whatever. This might be a big factor in the results but I think it would be an invasion of the privacy of those children to talk about their abilities/results in such a public way. I'm a governor at a small school (15 in a year) and I would not want ex-pupil's to be written about in this way.

Have a look at the data for progress between KS1 and 2, speak to class teachers and the Head.

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