Moving to Ealing, Late application

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Hi, I'm wondering if someone could give me some advice. I'm living in Ireland at the moment and I have a 3 and a half year old son. We are considering returning to London next year, my son would be due to start reception class in September 2012.

I rang Ealing council and asked them how to apply and they told me I couldn't do anything until I have moved and have an address. They said we have to have moved by the 15th of January or else we would have to put in a late application.
I've since read on the council website that there is a months grace for families who have recently moved into the area, I don't know why they didn't tell me that on the phone. But it is still unlikely that we will have moved by then.

I'm panicking a bit here because I've been googling and have found newspaper articles about families in a similar position to us who have just returned from abroad and have no primary school place at all, and the attitude from the council seems to be that it is their own fault for sending in a late application.

Is there any way that I can apply without a UK address, I realise I would be at the bottom of every list because I would be out of the catchment area, but it could possibly be better than a late application? And then I could update my address when I move?

I'm also worried about getting allocated a school that is far away from us because I don't drive. If he doesn't get a place in a local school I would be prepared to put him on waiting lists and keep him in nursery until January and hope that he gets a place by then, if he still didn't have a place then I would home educate until he does. We weren't really expecting him to start school this September anyway because he wouldn't start until 2013 in Ireland, he only goes to preschool 2 days a week at the moment and was due to start full time next year. I don't know anything about waiting lists or how long we would be likely to be waiting.

And finally does anyone know how oversubscribed schools in the Acton/Ealing area are? We are practicing catholics so I would rather he went to a catholic school. I see that there is a new school opening in my old parish Holy Family in West Acton and I would like him to go there. Is this school less likely to be oversubscribed because it's new, or is it more likely to be because it's catholic, or are all schools oversubscribed regardless?

Sorry for so many questions!

To start with the bad news, there is no way you can apply without a UK address unless you are in Ireland on Crown Service.

However, once you have an address the LA has to find a place for you. It will probably be at an unpopular school and could be miles from your home but they have to offer you something. They can't simply refuse to admit your child anywhere. Some councils aren't very good with this but you will get plenty of help on here if Ealing don't come up with an offer.

Thanks, Ah well!

We should have moved last year, it would have been much easier.
If we couldn't get a school place nearby and I kept him home would we be waiting long for a place? Is it difficult to get a child a place in school in year one?
I don't want him to settle in a school and then move him, I don't know how he would cope with it. He's being assessed at the moment, they think he might have aspergers. I don't know how easily he'll settle in school, I don't want him to have to do it twice.

I doubt it is possible to answer those questions until you have an address. You could then ask the LA about the pupil turnover in schools near your home. If it is high you would have a reasonable chance of getting a place through the waiting list but there are no guarantees. If you want to wait until a place nearby comes up I suggest you accept whatever place is offered but defer entry until Easter. That way you have the place as a backstop.

It is very difficult to get a child a place in Y1. In most cases Y1 will be full with the children who attended Reception. There is a legal limit on class sizes so most schools can't admit any additional children. You may strike it lucky but waiting that long may leave you in an even worse situation as the place you were offered initially would, by then, have been given to someone else.

The GOOD news is that Catholic schools often handle their own admissions, and you can open a dialogue with the school you want your child to attend before you have an address. They will require an up to date birth certificate and a reference from your local parish priest. I assume this should not be a problem if you are practicing Catholics.

But regards to the actual formal application, you must have a uk address. They will require proof of address at the point of formally offering you a school place.

Catholic schools often get applications from families outside the borough, as people often chose a Catholic school a bit further from where they live, if there is no adequate Catholic school in their own neighbourhood.

Don't worry about the news articles, about no primary school places, because like PRH said they have to offer your son a place somewhere. We were in the same situation, no school place for my DS, eventually two days after a refused appeal, Ealing offered us a place at our preferred school under 'fair access protocol'.
Sorry, I don't know how catholic school admissions work, however both Ealing and Acton state schools are oversubscribed. Another word of warning, although you already have an idea, Ealing council never tell you anything properly make sure you do your own research on your rights, any problems, just post on here i'm sure someone will direct you the right way.
Am I right in assuming your DS is going to be in reception?

Also is this catholic school opened, or going to open soon?
Good Luck.

PRH- Hi, how are you?

The BAD news is that QuintessentiallyFestive is wrong, I'm afraid. Things changed a year or two ago and all admissions are now handled by the LA including in year applications. A Catholic school is still its own admission authority which means it can set its own admission criteria and is responsible for putting applicants into priority order during the main admissions round, but you still apply to the LA and the offer is made by the LA.

I suppose it is different between different LEAs. Or maybe the rules are different if it is not Reception, but other years?

We moved in September, and spoke to the LEA in June, it was treated as an "in year application" as it was after application deadline. We were told the school (RC primary) held their own lists, and that we should speak to the school. We got a place confirmed on the phone, subject to baptism certificates and priests reference. We still had to put in the formal application forms, but that was just procedure, we knew we had the place at the school.

No, it is the same for all LAs in England and the rules are the same for all years, both Primary and Secondary. Your school broke the Admissions Code. They should not have offered you a place. That is the LA's job. It obviously didn't cause a problem in your case so no harm done but they could get themselves into trouble if they carry on like this.

In Ealing, the LA handles the admissions for catholic schools. I think that the Holy Family school in Acton is scheduled to start admitting pupils in Sept. 2012.

Late admissions are a problem around here, because the schools are very over subscribed- especially the Catholic ones (big polish population) and especially schools in the Acton area, but they are expanding schools, including catholic ones.

I wouldn't say its completely hopeless. You just might end up at a school that you don't really want for a while until a place opens up at the school that you do want.

There are some proposed plans re: primary schools in Acton. There will be the new Catholic school in West Acton. Expansion to an existing primary school in West Acton, also a centre is going to be converted into a primary school, because there is such a demanding need, for more primary schools In the area. The spooner you move, the better chance to get your child into the preferred school.

OK, well the bad news. The good primary schools in Ealing are very oversubcribed.

Catholic schools are even more oversubscribed.

Based on the number of siblings at my son's school, the school expects there to be 8 places left for other children. They get hundreds of applications (although a good few of those won't be Catholic so won't get in).

The new school is a possibility, but it depends on whether they open it as a 'full' school or just start with reception the year they build it.

Even if you applied now, you wouldn't be in a better position than if you didn't.

Now for the good news.

Once the places are all allocated and the waiting lists start, it doesn't matter when you apply. All that matters is where you fall in the admissions criteria (eg distance). So, if you moved right next to your school you might leapfrog up the waiting list to number one. Time on the waiting list doesn't count for anything.

Thanks everyone for all your advice.
I'm beginning to wonder whether we should go at all, It's so much easier here, ds is guaranteed a place at the local catholic primary. But if we don't move now it could be harder if we move later and I have to try and find a place for ds2 aswell.

I'm an ex pupil of St Vincents, I would love for him to go there but I think maybe he would have more chance of getting in at the new Holy Family school. I think a new school that only has reception in it would be good for him too because he is so quiet and shy, it would be less overwhelming for him.

That is good news about the waiting list. I wish I knew roughly how long it would take to get a place. When I was in St Vincents there was a fairly high turnover of pupils, but that was 15-20 years ago and times were different. There were a lot of Irish people leaving London and returning to Ireland, but now the opposite is happening.

Am I right in thinking that if he doesn't get a place earlier, he would be likely to get a place by year 3 as the rules about the number of pupils in a class relax? I would really like him to be in a catholic school by year 3 so he can do his first holy communion with the school.

That is not actually correct. The admission number for the school stays exactly the same in most primary schools from reception year to year 6. A few do increase their admission number for year 3 because there is an infant school nearby from which they transfer at the start of year 3.

What does change is that the restrictions imposed by the infant class size regulations stop in year 3, which means that a school teacher can have more than 30 pupils in the class. Further Pupils can only be admitted to a school that has filled to their admission number via a successful admission appeal. In reality because of the restrictions imposed by the infant class size regs, this means it is very unlikely to lead to any successful appeals in infant classes. The difference at year 3 is that an admission appeal panel has much more leeway to admit if you have a good case for admission and that is why there might be more in the class than 30 than in an infant class but there is no automatic increase.

Oh no. I don't know what to do. Is it a really big gamble moving and hoping he'll get a place eventually if I move close to the school?

well, you can move there, but you're more likely to get a place at a local undersubscribed school to be honest.

is the new school one form or two form do you know?

Nothing to add, just saying hi to Msamber1 having missed her saying hi earlier!

Two form I think, 60 reception places.

I suppose one thing may be to phone admissions at Ealing and ask if they are adding bulge classes to the existing YR classes in the area. I know they did it this year for several schools. I also know of several children in the West Acton area who were without school for the whole of YR class - LA offered schools outside of Acton, parents declined, no movement of waiting lists.

Oh no, it's really not looking good is it. If I could try and move and get my application in before the 15th Feb my application would be considered on time by Ealing Council. If dh gets a job by then we could rush over. But we wouldn't have a council tax bill to prove my address, or any bills, just a lease if we managed to find a place to rent on time, would that be enough?
We wouldn't have anything sorted like child benefit or anything like that do they ask for evidence like that?

I thought anything after Jan 15th was considered a late application?

Re. the lease, there is a section on the Ealing admissions page about acceptable forms of address if you don't pay council tax. You really do need to speak to admissions I think.

this page - www.eadmissions.org.uk/eAdmissions/app

I think a lease is acceptable proof, however I would still advise to check with Ealing.