Lefthanded Children in School

[Robins]

Just a bit of a general query really at this stage as I have only just started to think that my just turned 9 year old daughter may need some help in the classroom with her lefthandedness!

Do any of you have lefthanded children that have struggled with anything in the classroom but with particular reference to handwriting? I have done a little research on the net and know there can be difficulties if the proper support/teaching methods are not used and I now want to bring this up with the school. (I have done tentatively after listening to one or two moans from my little girl!)

Just asked DS2 and he says his teacher always reminds him to sit on the left of the pair of desks. That is good.

I wonder if the ink pen he has always had to use at school has caused his 'hook' handed approach to avoid smudging. He is always worried about being neat.

We have considered an ergonomic left handed ink pen but really do wonder if a nice well balanced fibre tip or roller ball might be easier to use.

Yes I hold my hand in a sort of hook too it was the only way to minimise the smudging until biro was allowed.

I wouldn't be surprised if most lh people's handwriting became neater in highschool when the teachers don't mind how or what you write with as long as you just do it

Good point about the biro in senior school. The emphasis DS2 is getting from his teacher on trying to write quicker is becuase the teacher is worried he will struggle at senior school. The senior school has an approach to teaching where pupils are expected to make their own notes as the teacher talks rather than just copying off the board.

It is really important to be able to write quick and DS1 has struggled a bit as he entered senior school even though he is a very competent writer. Thing is they still make them write with an ink pen so DS1 is still trying to be neat as well.

Gosh guys:

Folkgirl and exotic fruits. I think you both could do with reviewing the discrimination law. It no longer is what you think or even what you have always done as a teacher/ school - if parents feel their left-handed child is being treated differently (i.e. you forcing them to use right handed scissors or write all cramped up - which you are not doing in reverse for the right handed children) then I'm afraid these days they are well within their rights to invoke the discrimination act 2010 and frankly would win.

What really concerns me about your posts is that you both have the attitude of 'I don't think it's a problem' or 'It isn't a problem for me' - without accepting that it might be slightly different for each child and/or is clearly worrying the parents. You're not reassuring parents. You also don't come across as supporting the child in what might be their educational need (perhaps everything else is brilliant - but writing left-handed is the difficulty for them).

Just as it is most likely slightly different for each right-handed writer, it most likely is also different for each left-handed writer. It seems to me a teacher who positively identifies the child's need and meets them is the ideal (i.e. a teacher actively thinking writing is great, but they can't cut for toffee with our standard scissors, must find a pair that works for X). Indeed, each child learning to write has all sorts of special issues regardless of which hand they use (or both).

Is it so outrageous to consider seating a child so his/ her elbow can poke out - if that's how they write comfortably?

Is it so outrageous to give a left-handed child scissors with either both finger holes the same size or the larger hole being for the left-hand forefinger?

I think what a lot of parents are asking for is a bit of consideration, often on behalf of child that does't want to make a fuss or is uncertain how to ask for the help. I also don't think supporting left-handed writing would take a huge amount of extra time/ work/ organisation to ensure that their child with those writing/ working requirements gets on (regardless of handedness).

Oddly enough I have had more troubles with my right-handed child - but mainly because my left-handed child took it upon herself to spend hours practicing writing at home because her teacher was so abusive in class in front of eveyrone about her writing position, style and smudging. DD1 had apparently been sent to the Head several times 'for intentionally bumping chidren when working at the group tables'. DD1 kept asking for me to buy her notebooks and then go off and write in them for hours. I'd ask what are you doing DD1? when I saw her scribbling away in a notebook and she'd answer, 'Practicing my writing so Mrs. X doesn't yell at me.'

The 'hard cheese' attitude of the teacher (possilby like yours Folkgirl and exoticfruits) did work in that case - but I would argue for all the wrong reasons.

My DS is lefthanded and always makes sure he sits on the left side of the table in order to avoid the 'battle of the elbows'. He also flips his paper/writing book around as he finds the 'hook grip' hard to keep up. We've never had any problems at school with his left handedness at all - with practice his writing has become neat and clear, better than alot of his school friends actually and school provides plenty of left handed scissors for him. Much better than when my Dsis went to school, she used to have pens, forks etc taken out of her left handed grip and switched to the 'correct' hands - this wasn't 40 years ago but 25 years ago at the same school.

OP im left handed - one of five children and everyone else at home was right handed. At no point did I feel 'excluded' from school. I did complain about handwriting but that was because I didn't like it and found it hard at times rather than I had problems. Growing up with right handed people I have learnt (as children tend to) through imitation - all of my other 'hand' tasks are right handed eg. the way I hold my cutlery, I use right handed scissors ect.

I think you are worried as all parents are at some point that their child will not or is not progressing in comparison to other children or may not be getting the support they need to flourish. But as a left handed person who has notched up a degree, a masters and hoping to kick start a Phd next year I can say from experience that being 'a leftie' hasn't hindered my ability to learn or 'get on in life'.

I couldn't agree more that dd's new school was much better than the old one.

You've managed to adapt, fantastic, well done you, give yourself a medal . But please don't assume that LH pens and letter formation charts are a load of wank. For some dc they are the turning point in their school lives - my dd being one of them.

Like I said, not all dc are the same, it's a mistake to treat them all as easily adapting, as clearly not all are.

Before we moved dd, we thought the very best we could hope for her future was limited to jobs such as shelf stacking, now the world's her oyster. Thanks to a fantastic school who gave her the tools to write properly (slightly differently to RH people, but quickly and neatly), to make her school life slightly easier (sitting her on the left) and helping her regain her confidence by using strategies that her previous school denied even existed.

ds1 is lh and its never been a problem for him.the only thing he seems to struggle with is scissors.he has lh ones but uses them in his rh,but will use rh scissors in his lh!
Iwantbrie-I too had pencils and crayons taken out my lh as a child.my gran used to tell me off if I picked anything at all up with my lh-I'm predominantly rh now.
in fact she made her disdain at ds1 being a leftie quite well known when she realised id just let him get on with it!! [Hmm]

PastSellByDate I really don't want to convey that I have a 'hard cheese' attitude towards the children. I usually work in Reception and provide LH scissors, but a lot of the LH children don't choose to use them and the RH ones will do if they're the only ones left. All manage quite successfully.

One year 4 LH child queried why I did my ticks backwards and I explained to him. He had a go and his face lit up and he said "That's so easy!" Ticks are designed to me a quick mark making, and doing them backwards makes that easier for LH children. So clearly some things can be more difficult.

I usually enable LH children to sit on the end of the desk with their elbows free but I think most teachers would do this nowadays, even if it was a reactive decision "oh Thomas and James, why don't you swap places and then you won't keep bumping each other" and the SENCO would certainly have something to say if children were being discriminated against.

I just feel very strongly about giving some children and their parents a 'card' to wave. Not all families will wave them, but some definitely do. I support all children to overcome whatever their idiosyncracies. In the case of SN, I do it with the support of external agencies, the SENCO and more experienced teachers. In the case of little things like 'handedness' these are addressed in the course of the lesson, the way I organise the class. The KS1 children don't even realise.

What I object to is the fait accompli that:

All LH form letters different - we DO form our letters completely differently from a right hander. False.

All LH-ers find writing difficult - its why cursive is tricky for a leftie. False.

(don't mean to pick on UnexpectedOrange - just that the comments were succinct )

All LH-ers have untidy writing. There are plenty on here who don't, and plenty of RH who do.

Surely, teaching LH a whole different way of writing which does not support cursive script is disadvantaging them. Not just not making a big deal of it. Lots of children find writing/letter formation difficult. It just isn't always easy to give a reason (excuse?) for it.

My DS is right handed and writes with his right hand but he hold his pen in that odd above the text hook that some LH-ers use. No one has ever tried to correct it!

Seriously Favorolles I would actually really like to see a LH letter formation chart if only to see if I would find any of the letters easier. I just can't imagine how I would form them differently. I was being a bit cheeky, but I really am curious now!

Like I said, not all dc are the same, it's a mistake to treat them all as easily adapting, as clearly not all are. Agree. But there are a lot of sweeping generalisations being made on here about what all LH-ers are/can or can't do/think/whatever and there are LH-ers commenting on saying that it doesn't apply to them.

I've never met anyone who didn't reach their full potential because, and only because they were left handed.

Just as there are some parents who will not accept that their children have additional needs of any description there are also those who seem to want their children to (speaking from experience, not comments on here).

I would also like to make it clear that I am only talking about handedness here. Actual SEN are different.

I've never met anyone who didn't reach their full potential because, and only because they were left handed.

I have, however, known people who didn't reach their full potential because they had a reason to think they never would do.

Folkgirl - I completely agree with your post.
It sounds like you give your pupils ways to make writing easier, but not all schools do that, and that's when it can cause problems - of course not to the same extent that SN's like dyslexia can, but issues that definitely dent self esteem and belief in ability.

We have never used LH-ness as an opportunity to wave flags, in fact despite all her problems at her old school, apart from mentioning her struggles with writing and wondering if there was a formation chart (all the dc had one laminated to practise at home, which clearly said at
the top "right handed alphabet"), but were told it did not exist, and her problems were because (in so many words) she was stupid.

Like I said before, almost immediately at her new school, she was given a LH chart, and a pencil with a foam bit on it to show her how to correctly hold the pencil, and her writing improved dramatically. I can remember her coming home and being so proud of herself.
Of course the main problem was a shit school, but I do believe that had she had a LH chart, she would have clicked with it much sooner.

I'll have a google for a chart and link it. They're not hugely different, but just make writing flow a bit easier - I suppose a bit like you doing your ticks a different way :)

Here you go

Like I said, not much different, but helps with the flow.
Dd's old school watched them like hawks with letter formation, anything other than the charts they were following was wrong, so even if she had come up with strategies by herself, she would have been in trouble for using them.
She wasn't the only LH dc in that horrible school to struggle. Plenty of others left too, and haven't looked back since :)

Faverolles - I'm really pleased your DD found a school that supported her personalised learning in the way that all schools should. Schools shouldn't do anything to damage the progress/self esteem of any their pupils (certainly not in this more enlightened day and age!).

I would imagine that if a school doesn't support things like this, they probably have bigger problems than just this alone! So your DD's issues were probably more to do with the school in general than her LH-edness in specific.

Actually it's just made me wonder if LH-edness did qualify as an SEN to ensure children were enabled to sit comfortably, position paper as they needed to etc, then it would receive more recognition and schools would be able to support it within the realms of inclusion to tick the Ofsted box. Just seems ridiculous to me that this would be necessary!

Not happy with this that I typed So clearly some things can be more difficult. because it's not that some things can be more difficult, rather that they can be made easier. An important distinction I feel!

Thanks for that Faverolles. Interesting, but I can see how using that formation would make cursive script and the flow of writing more difficult for some people given that the flow of writing is from L-R. I would have thought it felt quite stilted - for me at least.

Dd's old school watched them like hawks with letter formation, anything other than the charts they were following was wrong, so even if she had come up with strategies by herself, she would have been in trouble for using them. That's the national curriculum for you

"I've never met anyone who didn't reach their full potential because, and only because they were left handed."

My Dad, now age 67, says he left school early because he hated being forced to write with his right hand when he is left handed and was always made to feel bad about academic things. He is actually very good at maths but is still a very bad writer and a slow reader to this day.

My DB was naturally left handed, and was forced to write with his right, to the point where his left hand was smacked with a ruler if he tried to use it :(
He avoids reading and writing as much as he possibly can.

MoreBeta That's awful, but your dad was of a different generation and mistakes were made for lots of children then

It was being forced to right with his 'wrong' hand, rather than being LH that was a problem for him.

Hi all:

For Folkgirl and others that doubt left-handed letter formation is different - and because this is free on-line see this www.anythingleft-handed.co.uk/letter_formations.html - you'll see that second version of some letters is the alternative formation for left-handers and can (in some cases) be easier, depending on how the left-hander holds their pencil/ pen.

It's very subtle - but there are differences.

For folkgirl - we actually have NEVER asked about left-handedness (and have other fish to fry - see below) so no card waving parents here. We were more concerned about the fact that in Y2 DD1 (left-handed) couldn't take 1 from 10 (pretty sure has nothing to do with handedness - but totally awful teaching applies) and the school were content with that (informed she's on track for national curriculum standards) and DD1 had no maths homework whatsoever. Reading was also progressing very slowly - books changed once every 2 - 3 weeks. I think you have to realise that people writing in are all at very different schools, in very different situations.

I've relied on Mumsnet to find out about things and get ideas and advice because effectively school is daycare and then DH & I (after working a full day) come home and take turns in teaching what so clearly isn't being taught at school. Our DD1 getting support to write left-handed at school was the least of our worries.

Also as you are a teacher folkgirl suggest you read this on TES:

www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=312517
www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=312516

Perhaps rather than seeing parents on Mumsnet discussing this as an issue as 'whinging' or 'card waving' - perhaps you ought to look into this a bit more and see that there are some issues and some fairly simply remedies.

sorry last post should have read: fairly simple remedies. Bit grumpy with folkgirl and her ilk. Well teachers in general - based I hasten to add on my dismal experience of our DDs primary school.

Clearly are some fab teachers out there - sadly just not at our school. But thanks to those who have given great advice and suggestions. They've been worth their weight in gold.

PastSellByDate

I am genuinely sorry if you've had negative experiences and it sounds as if you have a lot on your plate but your post contains a lot of grievances that I have not passed any comment on at all especially as Our DD1 getting support to write left-handed at school was the least of our worries.

I can assure you that I always do the best by children in my class and where I don't have experience, knowledge or expertise, I seek it out. No child should be disadvantaged because they find something difficult - for whatever reason, but I do not agree with the sweeping generalisations because they don't help anyone. Neither do I assume that just because I am LH that I speak for all LH people. I will look at the TES articles.

But I stand by everything I've said.

LH letter formation isn't different. That's not a fact. Some LH children/adults might find it easier to form letters differently and that should be addressed individually because there are disadvantages to forming letters 'incorrectly' such as cursive script. Obviously, I would rather a child write and form some letters back to front rather than not write at all but to suggest it is an empirical fact that it's just different discounts the experiences of everyone on here for whom that is not the case.

Neither did I suggest that all parents wave a flag/card, but that some do. I had one parent diagnose her son with autism on the strength that he didn't always do as he was told and she had read that "autistic children had problems following instructions" and wanted to know what we were going to do about it. I didn't put on my high and might "I know better, what do they know, they're just his parents" hat on, but the following day I had a very embarrassed dad come to apologise for the fact his wife had just completed a module on a course on child development and that since the course had started autism was one of many conditions she'd diagnosed!

Parents who refuse to attend their IEP review meetings because "there's nothing wrong" with their child frustrate me equally.

You stated yourself that extras benefit some LH people. Lots of things benefit lots of people differently and if someone can use something to make a task easier for them, and it is appropriate for them to do so, then they should do. That's no different to expecting some children in the class to be able to keep a number in their head and count on using their fingers, and giving others objects to count, and no different to me using one of those jar openers because my wrists are too weak to do it without.

The part of your post that you directed specifically at me doesn't address or refer to LH-ness at all (which is all I'm commenting on here). Clearly you had much greater issues with the school than which hand your child preferred to use and therefore, have a valid reason to be angry at the school. It sounds as thought your DD has more to contend with than just not holding her pen in the standard hand.

I don't think that parents discussing issues on MN are all whingers. I think some of them are ! But I also think that many have been let down and are frustrated by the inadequacies of systems and establishments that have let them down when they should have supported them. I also think sometimes parents raise very valid points that sometimes teachers lose sight of in the 'professionalism' of it all. I am a teacher but I am also a parent and I know what it's like to be on both sides of the fence. And I know how frustrating it is to feel that you're being kept out of the loop.

Furthermore, I don't have 20 years of teaching under my belt, but I have worked with many who have and some of them have been a bit 'meh', but many of them are amazing. I have never heard any of them, nor any parents, nor any children for whom being LH is a huge problem, if being LH is their only issue.

Oh potato peelers and tin openers. I'd forgotten about them!

I've just had a look at the LH letter formation www.anythingleft-handed.co.uk/letter_formations.html and other than the across strokes of upper case Js, ts and the like, there's no difference anyway!

Both my dd's are left handed. Dd1 who is 8 has beautiful writing and has had no issues/complaints.

DD2 has just started school and writing; the only issue she has is she writes backwards sometimes, ie eman but seemingly this is quite common in lh initially. She seems to have stopped doing this now after a bit of guidance.

The point is the cross strokes - left handers can find it easier if they are allowed to make them towards them. It's not just J - it's a lot of the alphabet: A, E, F and f, G, H, I, J, K, M, N, T, W & Z.

Folkgirl - you have posted that you insist your kids do it all right-handed way. It's a minor difference - but it can make life much easier.

Maybe I've misunderstood - but you have seemed to be highly opposed to having them do anything differently at all. Just suck it up and get on with it seems your motto.

Do you sincerely think they should just all learn to be right-handed? I thought we were past that.