What To Do With a Three Year Old

[learnandsay]

Hi Folks,

I've been teaching my three year old daughter to recognise words, sentences and phrases. So for those of you who know the Usborne phonics readers will know Big Pig on a Dig and Ted's Shed. She can read those two and also the first two stories (for those of you with long memories!) Elsie Holmelund Minarik/ Maurice Sendak Little Bear short stories.

The reason I say recognise phrases rather than read is because my daughter still can't decipher new words. So, if you show her short she'll tell you it says short. But if you show her shot, she'll say "I don't know that word."

We're working on decoding unfamiliar words. But it's a long process!

Anyway, she loves simple addition which we call add one (or add any number up to ten) using lego blocks and the like. We do the same for subtraction. And for multiplication we do repeated addition. Which she finds very enjoyable. She can also divide by two, because division by two is very easy and she understands the idea of having one left over. In fact she can divide by three too. But that's another story.

Anyway, here comes my question.

My daughter will start in Reception next September. And there I've seen children learning to recognise their own names and to count to five. I don't believe that the concepts of division and multiplication are even introduced until the children are at least a couple of years older. And I haven't seen Reception children reading entire books. In fact I've seen Year One children still reading made up words like foo, goo and boo on an interactive white board.

So, my question is this........

How do I prevent my daughter's education from declining rapidly when she starts school? I can't help feeling that Reception classes are going to facilitate the unlearning of everything that I've taught her. She's still got almost a year to go till then. So she'll have acquired a lot more to forget by the time she reaches school.

What do you think I should do?

PS, my question assumes that she is sent to the catchment area primary. We have some out of catchment primaries which are avowedly academic in focus. But they are predictably oversubscribed. Our catchment school is proud of its parental involvement. But I can't imagine how sixty children's education is to be undertaken if a teacher needs to spend lots of time teaching my daughter things none of her classmates have any clue about! It just doesn't make sense! So, with the best will in the world my daughter can only expect to get taught what everybody else is being taught, (I think.) Hence her education must inevitably regress. (And I'm very much against home schooling children for social reasons. Although I think that in many case the academic results speak for themselves.)

lljkk I was going to say the same thing about 1 to 1 adult attention.

Also, if she's so far ahead, she will be bored at school and act up even more. She may become the naughty child the way you are leading her.

What she needs to learn is:

• how to get dressed on her own
• fine motor skills eg. cutting, holding pencil
• social skills (one of these is how to play well with other kids)
• develop imagination so that when she can write, she has something to write

Let her colour things in how she wants, a yellow/ pink bus or draw pictures which are just pictures and not 'of' a flower/ a tree/ a house.

Good luck! I don't think any school will take kindly to her being able to read in a way they haven't taught as they all have their methods and may have to unteach her some things.

Firstly, as most other people have said, I would relax a bit and let her be a 3 year old.

Secondly, my son could read and do simple maths before he started school. I didn't "teach" him but he picked it up himself because he has a sister who is 4 years older then him who used to play schools with him and who he used to watch doing her homework. When he started school, he never said he was bored because he loved playing with the other children, he found all artistic things a challenge because he isn't that way inclined and he had to learn to take basic responsibility for his things. I'm sure that you will find that, while your dd is obviously ahead in some things, she will need to catch up in other areas so will definitely be challenged by some aspects of school life.

My nephews who live abroad don't really start proper schooling until they are 6 as they are just allowed to learn through play, but studies show that they will be ahead of British children by 11, so there is definitely something to be said for not being over anxious abt reading at this age

SofH, it can't all be that easy, otherwise Britain wouldn't have one in five adults categorised as functionally illiterate. Or maybe Kerry Katona teaches more classes than you'd realised.

RiversideMum, thanks for that. She plays nicely in kindergarten. I think mum and dad get special treatment! Apparently she walks for quite a while with parents of friends too. But with mum and dad she needs to be carried from the steps outside the house!

Nice ideas people, thanks for them. I guess I'm finding the idea of my child going to school to play and coming home to learn a bit backwards. And the idea of stopping teaching her a bit counter-intuitive! Parents are supposed to teach their children! I mean I wouldn't let her drown at swimming class just because their are lifeguards there.

My DD also loves to play "adding up games" and spotting words etc. She is mostly self-taught believe it or not as I rather encourage her to play and do physical things, but she is always on at me to explain words and spell out things for her to write. She is four and does not start school for another year (we are not in the UK) so I have the same anxiety as you that she will be ahead and bored by something she is so looking forward to...learning at school. If you are concerned that she needs things to focus on, put out a table full of craft materials and puzzles etc and make her a mini-kinder environment without necessarily teaching her. My DD will quite happily amuse herself making stuff, drawing and writing, and "pretend reading" to her toys. If you think it is about her wanting mummy time, maybe teach her to cook and garden as well as to read and write, and try to broaden her horizons. But I do have sympathy with what you are saying. Some kids just love to learn, and you feel a bit weird putting the brakes on when they obviously enjoy it and think of it as play.
I am in no ways a pushy mum, and don't think this problem is restricted to the "flash card" brigade.

No, but if you had her name down for swimming class, you wouldn't teach her to swim a few weeks before before her first class. Or would you?

Teaching swimming? Yes and no. Swimming like most sports is best practised repeatedly. So yes. I'd take her swimming several times before the class. Yes. Teach her swimming? Probably not. But if I saw her doing something counter-productive I'd attempt to dissuade her, of course I would. Technically that's a form of teaching.

Swimming teachers do lots of exercises with the children which don't appear on the face of it to have much to do with swimming. I wouldn't do any of those with my child, no. So the answer is yes and no.

I think as parents we all teach our children things whether we're concious of it or not, reading, writing smoking or swearing at passing motorists. I guess I'm concious of the fact that I'm teaching her and I would like to teach her things that she'll find useful.

I would like to teach her things that she'll find useful.

Walking may be a good place to start then! As would be who is boss in your house. I think she has you guys wrapped round her little finger. (My dd screamed for around 30mins because I would not carry her home from school. This is a 10min walk but I refused to walk if she was screaming, so it took a loooong time. I doubt it will take that long next time though).

My DD being an only also ran and pulled on the curtains if she didn't have one to one attention from Mummy and Daddy. Being a dyslexic I really did not want to teach her any of my terrible habits.

So we played snap, pairs and various other simple games. A by product of all of these games was that we taught DD to sit quietly and concentrate, to take turns and that you can't win every single time. She entered a class of 'highly gifted early readers' (another parents description) whose mothers acted like I had committed child abuse by not teaching her to read.

However, at the end of the first term of reception the class teacher described her as the most ready for reception due to her ability to sit quietly and listen, concentrate for short periods and to take turns, along with the usual personal care stuff.
Four years later she is an excellent reader and has recently been selected above all those 'highly gifted early readers' to perform the reading in the carol service.
As for walking you have to stick your heels in at some point and refuse, otherwise you will still be doing it at 6. You have to go through the painful 'my legs hurt' moaning, but the more you do it the little muscles develop and they get able to walk further and further.
A huge pleasure now is that we have moved on to more advances games and nothing gives me greater pleasure to sit down on a rainy Sunday afternoon and play a game of Junior Monopoly or Junior Cludeo a love which DD got from those early games.

The reason maths became pedagogic was out of a need to keep my daughter engaged in something! If you don't keep her focussed she runs about the house pulling on the curtains throwing everything she can get hold of and climbing on your back and stomach.

It sounds as if the school will have lots to teach her when she starts

Ok then...if you want to teach her something useful, how about starting with what her legs are for?
That's the sort of thing parents need to teach. School takes care of maths and reading at the appropriate age. Trust us.

You can't, in answer to your question. Some Reception children can read entire books. Some can probably do quite hard sums. Some are very good at playing with other children, some are physically incredibly adept, some are very imaginative and incredibly creative. Some can sing better than Year 2/3 children.

Not sure if I am making my point but basically Reception is a melting pot. Children arrive with all sorts of abilities/things parents/nursery have taught/they have picked up. They arrive with a broad level of social skills, some good, some basic/non-existent. What I see Reception (and Year 1 to some extent) is for is for the children to learn about school, to fit into the school day, socialise, learn through play, be excited about learning, have the opportunity to try lots of different activites. To learn to read and write when appropriate.

There's a reason why many countries don't begin formal eduction until 6- the brain is still developing. And this is true of the brightest kids' brains. They might be able to handle some more complex maths but perhaps they haven't worked out how to negotiate with friends/ how to deal with emotional needs etc etc.

If you and your daughter enjoy the sums and the reading then carry on but I wouldn't spend too much time on it, get out and climb trees/jump/let her develop her imagination and become who she is more, this will help most with school.

Engaging her learning casually in the play scenario is fine, but doing it so formally is too much too young, Why don't you leave it to professionals/teachers?
another thing, you say she is very destructive unless doing task, Have you tried taking her to the park, cinema, matinée theatre, getting her out of the house into the cold, fresh air?
There is much to be learnt just by walking, observing and discussing and looking, feeding her senses and opening her mind. I am afraid going by what you said, you are risking her being very bored, distractive, and unhappy in the reception, not to mention teaching her reading by sight, in outdated way, can be demaging. I suggest you leave it well alone for now, what she learnt let her absorb/forget in hope she will ignite passion for learning with her peers in appropriate setting.
You like to teach her things that are useful in life;

Sitting quietly/being able to amuse herself
cooking/baking
Different crafts
helping you around the house etc.
There is lot more to useful life skills then reading and writing, enjoy your girl while you still have her at home most of the time, these are precious years.
She has years of formal education ahead of her.

OP, there is a big wide world out there with LOADS for a small child to learn about. She's done some reading and maths but do you really think there might be nothing left for her to learn in reception, honestly?? There'll be PE, new games, new friends, the whole school day process to learn about (sitting nicely for the register, queueing for dinnder etc), new songs. My DS is in reception and they go out for walks to learn about the local community, they learn about other countries, road safety, religion/God, animals, they have different themes like 'space' and 'celebrations' which they learn about.

How about you give school a chance before writing it off as a complete waste of your child's time?

learning not to pull on the curtains or throw things would be my first target

mrz

Agree with other posters that you need to back off and let the school do the work.

Great programme on BBC3 the other night about a 13 year old maths "genius" doing an OU degree. The advice from a visiting Cambridge professor was that this was not the best approach and that he should develop more breadth in his thinking through doing age-appropriate work and attending the summer schools for those with high mathematical ability.
I think similar advice would apply here - let her learn how to be a well-behaved child first and don't push her - she's only 3. It'd be awful if you turn her off learning. Maybe her behaviour is a reaction against having to do things she doesn't want to do "thank goodness I'm free of that; now I can mess about" - cork out of a bottle style.

My opinion is that those who push their children hard academically in the early years steal their childhood (DH has a first from Cambridge and was never pushed like that)

When she goes to reception, she'll learn phonics. It doesn't sound like you have taught her using this method (?)

If you had, she would read "short" as "sh" - "or" - "t"
and easily be able to apply the same method to read "shot" - "sh" - "o" - "t"

My 3yo DD will also start reception in Sept 2012, but she has an older brother who has learnt all this stuff and so she has learnt some of it as well. Your DD will likely have similar children in her class - plenty have phonic knowledge/can read when they start school. I am not particularly against you doing a small amount of education, but you should ensure you are teaching her the same methods as she will learn at school. The only words that you should teach her to read by sight are tricky ones like: I, the, he, she, me, one, what, are...........

SoH I don't have a pencil case. Will I get the sack?

OP, speaking as a parent whose child started school able to read well (sorted out phonics and how to blend them himself around his 3rd birthday) and quite happy adding up and taking away in real life situations - I have 3 sweets you have 2, how many would you have if I gave you all of them, type stuff. You really could do with relaxing slightly and assume that the school do know how to teach!
Being able to write 'nonsense' words like foo etc on a white board at reception is a perfectly valid skill to use - can you work out the phonic sounds in a word and right them down. It also practices letter writing skills, forming letters correctly. Does it actually matter what age they learn multiplication/division at school - at some point most children will be able to do it before leaving primary school. Our local primary is fairly good at differentiating the work for children even within the early years foundation stage and making sure they are all pushed at the right level for them.
If your DD is enjoying working out maths problems etc ie asking you for them, fine keep giving her problems to work out, same with the reading, but it could be that she just enjoys the fact that you are giving her attention. Have you tried doing other things with her other than lessons to keep her attention. Do you go out splashing in the puddles etc and learning about the rain, and how water moves etc etc Do you play doctors/vets and have imaginative play. Does she enjoy 'cutting and sticking'. These are all necessary skills that your daughter will have to learn at school if she hasn't learn them at home. Can your daughter play happily unattended as she will have to at school.

My second son has started school relatively 'unschooled' from home as he wasn't interested in learning to read until about 6 weeks before the summer holidays. He is now bounding along in reading and the school have recognised that and are working with him and encouraging him. They have realised he has a fab memory and given him pages of lines to learn for his Christmas play. Equally they have been aware of the areas where he isn't as strong and been helping him there too. Teachers in general IME are very good at assessing children's strengths and weaknesses and teaching them - it is what they are taught to do.

Poor poster - my mother taught me to read well before school and it never stole my childhood.

You have visit by the teacher before your DD starts school, I would try not to come across too pushy, but just let her read with the teacher so she can see her current attainment levels and do a few maths puzzles.

They'll be still things on the EYFS that your DD hasn't learnt and she'll learn those in her reception year. You can still do a lot at home still although I've found mine work much better before school rather than after.

You have taught some word recognition but don't mention any phonics. You could do this with her if you find out how to do it properly, but in a fun way.

I've been thinking about this a lot because I think that you may have a child like DS who could not do unfocused activity at that age. I had to really work on giving him things to do independently but in a structured way or else he would just wander off looking for things to destroy. I found it really hard to know how to manage him and (probably because I'm an ex teacher)

Things that worked were closed activities with 'rules' and beginning and end such as:
Jigsaws
Basic lego construction and designing duplo
Stickers and collages
Lots of craft
Stories with changing the ending when we would think of different things that would happen
Games

Also, we had to get out of the house all the time. You have to get firm about the walking because it will open up all sort of activities. For example, this weekend DS (5) and DD (3) wandered around the woods looking for and identifying different leaves. DS gets still gets destructive if he is not walked a lot. To give you an idea of what is possible DD is 3.2 and she walks a mile to DS' school every day and then around a mile over the rest of the day.

Hope this doesn't sound patronising.

In response to your original question, I don't think you will find that her education will decline but that it will broaden. Children learn a lot more at school than just the academic basics. They learn a lot from each other.

I would be inclined to agree with others about the behavioural issues though, that is the real problem that needs fixing here. Once you have that sorted, you can decide what you want to do regarding reading.

I also have a daughter who began reading by word recognition (although I didn't set out to teach her.) As she wanted to learn, I explained - with the help of many people on this board - phonics to her and now she is quite happily decoding words for herself and very much enjoying reading. If your daughter wants to read phonetically, I don't see the harm in showing her. If she's not interested yet, then don't.

DD also understands the concepts of simple adding, taking away and 'sharing out' but I don't assume that because she has grasped these concepts early she will be top of the class and bored at school. I know she bright but I certainly won't be sending her off to school thinking she's not going to learn anything. That's not the right attitude to take and children pick up on these things, even if you don't say it outright.

Any Reception class will contain children with vastly different levels of attaintment: some will be able to read, some will not know any letters at all. They all need to learn a lot of social skills in Reception (which is what Reception, to a great extent, is about), they will develop their imagination by playing with the school equipment and together with other children of the same age, and their academic needs should be met by differentiation. And the education offered at primary school is not just reading, writing and maths: it is also history, religious studies, geography, society, natural history, sciences- as a school teacher friend of mine once said "where is the point of teaching these children to write if they have nothing to write about?"

So many parents of bright children seem to have such a narrow concept of education; they don't seem to see beyond the three Rs. Seems a pity: ime bright children are really need a broad and positive attitude towards education in the people surrounding them if they are to make the most of their gifts.

I agree with Ophuchi that a preconceived idea that school won't have anything new to add is likely to damage your dd's educational development.

Today at lunch she said "I learned to read when I was a little baby." Still laughing now.

I don't mind if she learns history (although there is a raging academic/social debate going on about non-linear, non-narrative history going on at the moment. I too think it's a great criticism of modern history teaching.) Sex education I don't want her to learn. I'd rather she didn't learn religious education in primary school. (Secondary, OK) But frankly, I'd be much, much, much happier if primary just focussed on 3 Rs. That's what I'm most concerned about. And that's what she can do.

By the way, my sister was only found not to be able to read at eleven!

How on earth does that happen?!!! I wouldn't leave teaching any of my children to read to schools, (any school) if you poked my eyes out and rubbed my wounds with salt. It's just too risky. What if they got it wrong? And they obviously to get it wrong with one in five school children.

With one in five adults categorised as functionally illiterate there's a one in five chance that it could be your child who gets failed in education.

Those are pretty dire odds.