Teachers, what would you expect the ability range in a 3 sets, mixed year 3/4 maths groups to be?

[Iamnotminterested]

Does that make sense? It is a mixed 3/4 class, with 3 ability groups; Bearing in mind that the top of the top set might be poles apart from the weakest of the year 3's, what would you estimate the range to be? I ask because I get the impression that DD is on the cusp between two groups and don't want to look a berk if the teacher says she shouldn't join another group because they are working at X level and DD isn't.

You'll look like a berk :)

Ability range will be totally class dependent.

Class will probably range from L1s to L4s, with the majority of kids being L2 or L3.

If the teacher wanted her in a different group, she would have put her there.

I'm not sure anyone can tell you that except for the teacher. It will vary so much between years. If you've got the year 4s are (compared to expected) good, and the year 3s (compared to expected) are poor there will be a greater range than if it's the other way round.

You can have the situation where a child is sort of between sets, struggling in one and coasting the the one below. Depends on the child which is better for them. Sometimes there is a very distinct difference between sets, just because of the ability.

Dd1's class in maths has 3 way at the top, about 25 that are not at the top but not struggling either and one who's between the top and the rest. Another class in her year has quite a few at the top, and a lot right at the bottom and a small middle.

When dd1 was in year 4 the top of the top set (5 sets) were working from a year 7 text book. The bottom group of the top set were working to a very similar line as to the top group in set 2, I believe, with a little extention work, so moving between sets was relatively easy for a child to do, but might make not a lot of difference to what they actually did.

Indigo that was not called for.
I gently suggested DD2 be allowed to go with the top group because she was feeling left out. She went and loved it.
English comes so naturally to DD2 that everyone, including her, forgets she can do maths too. However, because she isn't the very best, she only gives 90% without of a nudge.
I'm a mean Mother and know that she is actually quite lazy and not quite the angle school thinks she is

Thanks Indigobell

I think I might go and talk to her teacher after Christmas. DD is finding the work quite easy - she has only told me about one or two occasions when she hasn't understood something first time without really trying - and is getting full marks on mental maths tests, praise regularly for her class work and homework. BUT I appreciate it can be a fine line between taking a child out of their comfort zone to try something a little harder and making that move and knocking the child's confidence. Hmm.

Thankfully, Indigo, this DD is very different to the other one! The thing with DD2 is she really enjoys school, loves learning, sees it as good fun - which is great. But, I can't see her thinking "Hang on, I could do harder work" because she is not a competitive child and doesn't compare herself to her peers. I don't know, I just think if she has the potential should I push it a bit?

IMO It's fine to say 'she tells me she finds maths very easy' - it's not fine to say 'I think she should be moved up a group.'

But by and large, if you have no concerns, I don't think you should push it. If you have no concerns about DD or the teacher, you should trust the teacher to give her the appropriate work....

I would never say "I think she should be moved up a group" - then I would look like a berk. I've just got this niggle that keeps rearing it's ugly head saying that the top group will move further ahead and she will not be able to then catch up because she isn't currently being taught to their level, thus always keeping her in that top-end-of-middle-group - go you see my dilemma?

Well, I've said both to the teacher (who fobbed me off imo) so I spoke to the headmaster - too easy and not being stretched AND can do the maths homework set for the top group. My child was assessed and moved to a different ability group. You should say something but be prepared to be pissed off if nothing happens and to escalate if you feel the need. Nothing will change unless you are more proactive. Good Luck. (Yep, I too stressed over coming across as a pushy mum but at the end of the day, I want the best for my child and he was coasting it!)

Total ability range for a mixed class is hugely class-dependent - and also school dependent.

Last year, the range for us in that class was from P5-6 (so well below Level 1) to 4a bordering on level 5 - slightly more than 4 full levels across the class. I had 5 groups last year as a 'standard' 4 group structure just didn't work.

This year, the range would 'only' be from 1b/1a up to 4c, so only 3 full levels. I have 4 groups, which vary on an almost daily basis depending on exactly what we are doing...

I really don't go for fixed maths groups - one of my next-to-top group was working with the SEN group yesterday becuase we discovered a 'hole' in her understanding which needed to be plugged urgently, one of my SEN group was working with the top group today because it's something he finds easy and has a particular strength in. In fact i think there are only a couple of children who have remained in the same group for every lesson this term.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I just remember the teacher saying that there isn't usually movement between the groups