What is the right way to deal with bullying?

[GooseyLoosey]

Following on from another thread on bullying, I wondered what in general the view is on the correct way to deal with prolonged systematic bullying?

I am assuming a situation where the bullying child does have acknowledged behavioural issues and there is limited parental engagement so a firm telling off by parents or school has no impact.

When should the needs of the bullied children be put before those of the bullying child and things such as permanent exclusion be considered?

No idea I'm afraid. I exhausted all official routes when DD was the target and went straight to the parent (and on another occassion the child)

In my scenario, talking to the parents achieves nothing. To the extent that they acknowledge a problem, it is not theirs but everyone else's.

Seems people tend to think that talking to the child directly amounts to intimidation (and I can see why), but it's hard to see what else there is to do.

If telling off by the school has no impact what so ever then you would have to find a way of completely separating the two children at all times. The bullying cannot be allowed to continue just because the bully wont stop.

In a perfect world (and therefore quite a large school where you have this option!) I would move the bully to a different class, require them to eat lunch at home and to play at different parts of the playground during morning break (with the help of staff on duty.) If they lived near each other and walked home alone or with siblings I would ask them to leave at different times - ask 1 child each day to stay back for 5 mins playing a game or something.

I would also want something put in place to end the bullying. If sanctions aren't working then I might seek counselling, family meetings, organised play and social learning etc for the bully (and bullied if necessary).

No needs of one child should be put first - they are called needs for a reason, because the child cannot do without these things. But, I think what youre asking is when should the bully be removed. I would say if the things above are in place and the bully is still trying to get around them then it has reached the stage of harrassment and the child needs to be moved. If it continues after this I would support the parents in involving the police.

Moving the bully is not just pushing the problem away. The bully is in a very negative situation and going to a different school where people don't know this may be very beneficial for them. The original school of course cannot allow a child to terrorise the others but they equally cant ostrisise a child! If a child bullys everyone they come near then they have to leave otherwise they end up working, eating and playing alone.

I do think your stuck between a rock and a hard place tbh though I'd have a word with the child. I was bullied in primary school and once someone (a friends mother who saw me getting my usual lunchtime treatment) had a stern word it stopped. Can't tell you how lovely it was to go to school without knowing that I'd be getting smacked around during lunch or failing that hometime.

I'm not sure why bullies shouldn't be intimidated into stopping, surely we're all taught as children that actions have consequences.

Depending on the age of the child (8+ perhaps) it might actually be worthwhile having a bit of a chat with your community police officer. Perhaps they'd be willing to have a chat with the child and parents impressing upon them the seriousness of the situation.

Telling off definitely has no impact. The school do try and monitor the bullying child during all play times but inevitably there are gaps in which things happen.

The school say that there are strict criteria for permanent exclusion (as there should be) and multiple low level offences do not suffice.

I no longer know what the correct approach is, both in this case and in general. We are not allowed to tell the child off, ds is not allowed to retaliate. What is supposed to happen here?

The child in question here is in Yr 5.

Very sad, I was buillied badly at primary school, by a girl, right through to secondary and still remember the fear and intimidation.

Personally, I would resort to having a 'chat' with the child, but I understand that may not be an option.

Have you written to the school formally, copying the Governors? I would in no uncertain terms, tell them if it isn't sorted you will take your own steps to deal with it. I would let their imaginations go with that for a bit, could be press, speaking to the child, withdrawing your child (why should you) etc. You needn't say what when you write the letter!

Have a chat with parent line familylives.org.uk/ , I did recently on a similar issue and they were an excellent source of advice.

Hopefully this will work!

familylives.org.uk/

It does seem to get to that stage where the school essentially shrugs and says there's nothing else we can do, almost as if you're the problem for continuing to seek a resolution

Do you think your DS could stand up for himself if you told him he could retaliate? If so I'd tell him he could and also tell the school that given they can not control the other child your DS is entitled to defend himself.

Thanks for your thoughts and for the web link.

My ds will stand up for himself and is a very large child now. He has been told that he can do what he needs to to make this child stop but he must never start anything or go further than making him stop - within these boundaries, he has our full support and we will defend his actions to the hilt. The school are concerned by our attitude and told ds that the right thing to do is to run away or tell a teacher. When ds pointed out that sometimes there was no where to run to and no teacher to tell, there was no response to that really. We made it clear that we will not support a stance where our child is required to run away and become a perpertual victim.

It seems to me that the school would help if they could, they simply have no idea what to do and no effective power. No one is allowed to be horrible to the child in question and so he carries on unchecked.

On another thread the general view appeared to be that you could not tell off the child as you do not know what is going on at home with him etc. I do know and I feel sorry for him, but that should not be allowed to justify what I see as his reign of terror.

I'm so sorry for your situation. To say that the school has no idea what to do is ludicrous (from them, not you). Have you been given their policy on dealing with bullyiing? Have they acknowledged that the behaviour is bullying? There should always be a responsible adult around in school where the children are, so when your DS says there is no teacher, is there maybe a Dinner Lady? Who have you spoken to at the scool? Maybe you need to escalate it? If you have been through class teacher, head of phase, deputy then head teacher, I think it is time to consider involving your local Council.

Sorry if it seems I'm asking dumb questions xx

Teacher, head and LEA and govenors have all been involved. They acknowledge the child is a problem and has problems. There are strategies in place to support him and he is supposedly monitored during all play times. However, unless a teacher is standing 5 feet away, this does not help and more often than not, staff are distracted by the needs of other children and at the other side of the play ground.

I started off with the view that the child needed help and support but now I don't care. I just want him to go away and leave ds (and other children) alone.

It's so hard, isn't it? I agree with your strategy with your DS. Tell him not to start anything, but definitely to retaliate. That's sometimes the only way that bullies learn. Same thing happened with my DS. One hit was all it took. Nothing has happened since. We did the "turn the other cheek...." thing and that sometimes doesn't work.

If your DS doesn't retaliate after being attacked the bully won't learn anything about life. In life outside the school walls, people will retaliate without asking first. Might not be nice, but it's life.

I do hope you manage to get this sorted. Make sure your DS tells you everything. tell him that that is the way you can protect him.

We're having trouble with our DS, he's 9, nd it's a group of girls with one super bitch leader.

Ask for your child to be moved to a different class. When we had issues the school were useles as they were bullied and intimidated by the father of the child. Sadly we only resolved the issue when after more than a year of hell we removed our child and home edded and later switched schools. Felt like we were being punished - but it did work for us.

Without knowing what the child's "problems" are its tough to judge. Are they something he can control or not, is it something the parent could do something about with tighter discipline or is it more fundmental than that?

I think the main point on the other thread about the parent getting involved (if its the same one I'm thinking of) is unless you've seen exactly what happened then its inappropriate to get involved.GracieScotland was a good example of where a friend's mother saw what happened and intervened. Personally I'd be volunteering for everything school activity I could until I saw specifically something I could comment/react to.

I also think it makes a difference if the bullying is to one kid or several - in my DS's class last year there was one girl who bullied in an emotional as opposed to physical way. It was only after the teachers faced several parents in the same week that they really took action (the mother just said her girl was "spirited" and "a natural leader" ). Of course they should have taken action the very first time but in reality they didn't.

Sorry I meant .. in appropriate to get involved ie talk direct to the child. Of course you must be involved in terms of talking to the school etc

Hugh post just deleted

Gist of it was: no parental engagement at all - they deny there is a problem so no chance of any help there.

His problems are all behavioural - he is generally very agressive and will not do anything anyone tells him (even things like "pick your coat up").

We have seen it happen. Teachers have seen it happen. There is no doubt whatsoever what goes on.

It is not just ds he goes for, but ds is a little "quirky" and is his favourite target at the moment.

I do not want to live in a society where we just shrug and say people have to put up with this. He has had the help the school can give. It has not worked. He should be provided with help outside of the school now.

First off FWIW I think you are absolutely doing the right thing about telling you son to do anything he can to make it stop - and also telling the school that you've done this. I would just tell them that in addition to this you will be talking to the boy and his parents directly on each occasion from now on - unless they take proper action. And keep a note of what is said and when. I think the difference to the other thread I had in mind is a) the level of involvement with the school already and b) what you may say - you sound much more in control despite it obviously being really upsetting.
And without starting a witch hunt (fine line I know) ask other patents to take a similar stance and for them to push for action.
If the child doesn't even follow basic instruction I'm amazed that the school don't want to do something (- maybe they do but don't want to discuss it with you?)

You can write to the Govenor's if you feel your problems have not been addressed well or there are still problems and they should investigate. Have the school acted in line with their anti-bullying policy? After that you can also contact the Local Authority - but I know this is all a lot more stress addded to what you and your child are already suffering.

I would phone schools complaints at lea as this is a child protection issue. They can involve police.

When I said the other mother intervened she called him a little shit and threatened him with what amounts to GBH if he ever so much as looked at me the wrong way (80's dodgy estate) not saying you should do the same but it did work.

I would second encouraging the parents of any other affected children to speak to the school also. Obviously in a discreet way as you don't want to look like you are trying to organise a witch hunt. I had a bullying problem with my DD in yr 2, more minor than your DS is going though but still upsetting my DD a lot. It seemed that only the cumulative affect of various parents "having words with the school" seemed to prompt action.