Yr 3 son - any advice greatly appreciated!

[lifelongworrier]

Hi

Advice please!

My yr 3 son, who is 7 1/2, has always been in the middle sets at school. He did well in his Yr 2 Sats, got straight B's for all his subjects at the end of year 2 and was given a level "2B".

This week he came home from school and said he had been moved to bottom set for both literacy and numeracy.

I spoke to his teach at length about it.I firstly said I was disappointed that she hadn't told me about it, let alone put a few minutes aside to speak to my son and explan why. She said she didn't realise he would notice!!!!

Anyways, she said the reason is that whilst she knows he has the ability, and is doing well in subjects such as science, art etc, when it comes to putting pen to paper, he works incredibly slowly. She told me he is a perfectionist and seems to only want to answer questions in class if he definitely knows the answer - we have told him to have a go anyways, so what if it's wrong!

The teacher says that due to his speed (or lack of (and concentration)) he is now starting to fall behind. I told her that i was unimpressed that she has let this happen without dealing with it - or telling us so that we could do something.

I have arranged a tutor which my son is very pleased about - he wants to do well and is very quiet and well behaved in class, so it's not a case of him buggering about and wasting time in class.

I asked her what the next step was if tutoring didnt make a difference. She says she does not know! Seriously , are they just going to write my son off - he has good brains in there - he's very articulate and confident at home, very sociable and very capable. I feel like I have taken my eye off the ball and they just aren't too bothered. His teacher says that based on the governments targets, he is stil achieving middle et but that because the school has high grades/levels, he is falling short and that if he were at another school, he would be a higher set. But my argument is he's not at another school, he's at this one!!

So I guess, im just looking for any advice - anyone's child been in a similar posiiton/teachers?. Am I being too ambitious to think that I want my son to be back in middle set, coping well, with prospects of achieving well as he grows up and moves to secondary and hopefully uni. Or am I deluding mysellf. I feel I have failed him miserably. If he didn't have the brains per se, maybe I wou,dn't feel so desperately worried but knowing he is a bright enough lad, i can't bear to see it all go to waste.

Thanks for reading down to the end of this epic!

x

Unless all children are identical, somebody has to be in the bottom sets. In a very high achieving school, which yours seems to be, it will be average children; in an average school, it will be low ability children. Getting a 2B in his KS1 tests, proves that he can write - he now just has to buckle down and do it. He possibly needs some help to get him started, which might be what he will be getting in his new group. You might find that he can do better with a tutor, as a tutor will keep him more focused on task.

You haven't failed him. He is still a little boy. He will be able to concentrate better with maturity. If it is any consolation DS rarely wrote more than 3 consecutive sentences in primary school but managed to produce a lot more work as soon as he got to high school.

Oh you haven't failed him at all. The opposite in fact, you clearly care very much. Children develop at different rates at different ages, I think (no expert of course, just a mum of three) they have 'spurts' in learning in the same way they have growth spurts, and even if your DS isn't in the top or middle sets, it is not a failure in any respect of the word. My best friend's sister wasn't very academically bright at all at school, always somewhere in the middle, got really very average GCSEs, got just above average A levels and then went on to get a first class degree in English Lit and a PhD in Irish Poetry. I'm convinced that people develop at different times and rates intellectually and it comes with maturity, and it also takes a while to find out what you are good at, where your strengths lie, etc. I'd just suggest that you encourage him as best you can without putting any pressure on him or making him think he's failed if he doesn't do as well as before, if he's happy to have a tutor help him then why not? I'd also keep on at the school to encourage him too. Hope that helps :)

2B is the average for a child to get at the end of Year 2, so the idea of your DS being in the middle set is understandable. But does depend on his peers in that particular cohort. Lots of children achieving 3 or 2A means 2B becomes below "average" for that group. It's natural to not want your child in the bottom set, but I'm sure you would rather be in a set where he can make the best progress and as CecilyP says someone has to be there.
Out of curiosity how many sets are there and how many children in each set?
In most schools setting is fluid, so there is the opportunity to move back. Please don't feel you've let your son down by taking your eye off the ball. It may well be he is at a temporary plateau and maybe some other, later developing, children are having a spurt, so have overtaken him. From what I understand your son's areas to develop are concentration and getting his thoughts down? If he can think it and talk about it he just needs some strategies to get it down on paper. As a teacher I would be focusing on the concentration. If he's not concentrating well enough in class to process what he is learning it could hinder progress. How well does he concentrate at home on homework and with other activities?
PS if it helps I was "average" at school and took A levels later in life - I now have a PhD!

Thank you all for your comments - they all make sense to me!

Apparently there is 1 top set (6 pupils), 2 middle sets (12 pupils), one bottom set (6) and the remaining six go out of class during assembly times for extra help. His teacher told me that some children (im guessing top set ones) are already on level 3B, and she did say that his 2B, whilst at the end of year 2 was good, he hasn't progressed beyond that yet in Year 3.

His concentration generally isn't great - always been a standing joke! For example, I sent him upstairs yesterday morning to get dressed - he emerged 15 minutes late, still in his pj's but had made 2 fab lego models! However, if he's into something - i.e. lego, art, constructing something, "inventing" something, his concentration is excellent. His imagination is fanstastic and his vocabulary is very good, so it really seems, as you say, that it's a pen to paper issue.

THank you all - your input/advice is really valuable and helpful to me - it has calmed me down a bit as I've not slept with worry. It's just natural to want the best for your little ones isn't it!

Hopefully the tutor will help him to focus - i think the plan is for lots of story writing so that he has to concentrate for a longer period of time on what he's doing and keep in his head his punctuation, spelling etc - his little head will be boggled!!

x

The fact that his poor concentration is a "standing joke" in your family is something that needs addressing.

Sending him off with a prompt card that he can check to remind himself what he's supposed to be doing, setting a timer so that you ask him to repeat the instruction after 5 minutes, and indeed, asking him to repeat the instruction before he goes off to do anything might all help to keep him on track. Some of his behaviours at school are obviously replicated at home. You are disappointed with the teacher failing to deal with them, and yet, you haven't succeeded in improving them at home either from what you've said.

Whilst I agree that it's not great that the teacher didn't speak to you and discuss her concerns, you now need to start working closely in partnership with the school. As someone said earlier, some children in the class have to be in the lower groups - it may just be that for a short while, it's going to be your son.

Sorry, i think you may you have understood - when i say "standing joke" - i dont mean we stand and take the piss out him - it's something that we joke about with him in a nice way, not to humiliate him or anything!

Had we been aware that his concentration at school was affecting his learning, we would of course have acted sooner. Every parents' evening when we have asking the teacher directly how his concentration has been, we have been told on every occasion that it was improving.

Thanks for your advice, but military home life isn't our way and I think the other comments offer a more constructive, useful advice for us as a family who want the best for our son and equally to give him a happy, level, childhood.

But thanks for your contribution anyways.

Well- I think you and the teacher are right, that his concentration ( or lack of) is a key issue here.

It may be that he just isn't used to having to concentrate. I agree with Littlefish, you need to start working on this at home.

Personally, I'd limit "screen" time ( ie time on TV, computer, DS, playstation etc), especially during the week ( if you don't do this already). I think that children can get very used to passive but high stimulation input and can then find it difficult to concentrate in other situations.

It may also be that he has some traits of something like ADD, and dyslexic and dyspraxic students can also find concentration difficult. Does he show any other symptoms like poor spelling or handwriting or repeatedly mis-reading little words ( eg, and, on, the)? Don't worry about this unduly, as it might not be the case and when he starts working with a tutor this should become more evident if it is an issue. I'm just mentioning it because as a tutor, I've seen bright children described as "poor at concentrating" by a school when it was really a dyslexic problem (for which they had devised lots of coping strategies) that wasn't immediately apparent, but became much more so when working one-on-one for an hour at a time.

Even if there are problems like those just described, you still need to give your son strategies to deal with the issues and extend his concentration skills. You can help him at home. Set a timer for 10 minutes and ask him to see how much homework he can get done - to a good standard of course - in the time. Boys in particular often like "beat your own target" type activities. If he is doing something like learning times tables where the tasks are fairly standard, you could give him worksheets and see how many he can do correctly in 5 or 10 minutes. Then do a graph and see if he can beat his previous scores.

Prompt cards - as Littlefish describes- can be good. You could have a standard one for things he has to do in the morning ( getting dressed, teeth etc) and again you could do a "beat your previous time" exercise or give him stickers each time he does it all in under a certain time, with a reward for so many stickers gained. I'd start to help him to become responsible for organising his own stuff for school. This could be things like making sure he hangs up his coat when he comes in from school, sorting his PE or swimming kit on the right days, putting school uniform in wash or checking that everything is in his bag ready to take to school the next day. Do it with him to start with, draw up timetables and list so he knows where to get prompts and gradually give less input yourself!! If nothing else, you'll make his future partner in life very happy!!

Seriously, no sensible school will just "give up" on a pupil; but you do have more opportunity for strategies that require a lot of one-on-one supervision at home!

Tbf he's not really in the bottom set is he, the children who go out of assembly for extra help are bottom, your ds is just in a lower group. It also seems a little unfair to me that his teacher is picking him up for not going above a 2b so far this year. In ds's school they only predict them to go up 1/3 in the whole of yr 3, so going on the national average he should only be 2a at the end of this year. That's not to say that the teacher has done the wrong thing putting him down a group, if other dcs are progressing faster than him, just that nationally he's still on target & you shouldnt be too worried.

Your son is doing o.k. However,as some others have mentioned I would look carefully at the amount of time he spends watching t.v., playing computer games e.t.c. Some children who do this a lot often get the "vacant look !!" (No offence meant!) They become so familiar with being stimulated by screens of some description, they display total lack of concentration when it comes to writing e.t.c..
I have a Dd in Y3. When she was in Y1 I heard a lot about her lack of concentration from her teacher. At the time she did watch a lot of t.v..e.tc. I immediately cut down on the t.v and spent time with her doing arts/crafts/reading/painting and there was a huge improvement in her concentration. It has never been an issue since and I always ask!

I think you as a parent can do work with your son and set aside 20 mins a few times a week to do writing/reading/maths. You should see an improvement in him as if he is a 2B..he will catch up quickly.

I also agree with others about some children get learning spurts at different times. You will see this happening as well if you are monitoring him closely. He should not feel bad about being moved down and perhaps it's best not to mention it much.
He probably does not need a tutor but if it gives him a bit of confidence and you see progress then it may save you some stress!

I didn't suggest that you were taking the piss out of him about his poor concentration. I meant that the fact that he has poor concentration at home, as well as at school, means that it needs to addressed as it is obviously an on-going and long-standing issue.

I also don't think that there is anything about my first post that suggests a "military" approach. Far from it. My suggestions are those which would support him in a gentle, but appropriate way to begin to be able to follow instructions independently at the time when they were asked. A skill which I'm sure you'll agree is vital to his continued progress at school, and later in life. Prompt cards and repeating instructionsetc. are strategies recommended widely for use at home and schools by teachers, SENCOs, speech & language therapists, Educational psychologists and other learning professionals.

It's wonderful that he has a fantastic imagination and very good vocabulary; it's now really important that he is helped to develop the concentration skills necessary to be able to to apply his imagination and vocabulary to his work.

Apologies Littlefish, I took it the wrong way, sorry!

Ok, well, he reads to me every evening - his reading is actually very good, although again, he is a fairly slow reader, but long and new words don#t appear to phase him. We practice spellings and tables every night and again, he does very well. But I guess that's because it's one to one and I am pretty firm with him - I don't have any tv or radio on whilst we're doing them because of his concentration.

One thing I would agree with (although i agree with many and most in fact!) we must change though is that whilst he doesn't play DSi very often - maybe once or twice a month, he does watch tv whilst he's having breakfast and if anything, this is going to be the worst possible time of day to be watching tv, so definitely going to call a halt to that.

As I said above, I think - I would freely admit that because I had heard nothing to the contary, I had taken my eye off the ball, wrongly assuming he was progressing steadily. I think this is why I am most frustrated - that if I had been told earlier, i could have got him the necessary help earlier, and also i'm angry at myself. I just want to help him and get him back on track before it's too late, because I know if it's not dealt with asap, the situation could potentially have no way back!

Thanks again all for your input.

x

Thanks lifelongworrier. It's always hard to get the tone right when you're typing.

lifelong, am only saying this as nobody else seems to, but is there a chance it might help him being in the lower group? He'll gain confidence by finding the work a bit easier, so not be so perfectionist/ scared to have a go at other things. My son (also Yr3) was kept in a lower group for reading last year as he was a v.late starter, but it did him the world of good and he's zooming along now. If they'd put him in a higher group he'd have lost heart and still be stuck am sure. Groups are usually pretty fluid in primary, so they surely won't keep him there once he's ready to move up.

I would say it is a good thing. My DS was a perfectionist and he was in the bottom maths group all through junior school, even when he was 2nd in the class in a maths test they kept him there because they felt it suited him better.
He started the secondary in 3rd group, had to go up to 2nd but they kept him there when he was top of it. Eventually they had to put him top as he was outperforming most of them. It didn't do him any harm, he consolidated and was very confident. He got an A at A' level.
Don't get caught worrying about the group-worry about what he is being taught in the group.

"His concentration generally isn't great - always been a standing joke! For example, I sent him upstairs yesterday morning to get dressed - he emerged 15 minutes late, still in his pj's but had made 2 fab lego models!"

I think this is the crux of the issue and you need to stop thinking of your DS going off topic/target as a "standing joke". He really needs to learn to carry out instructions without getting waylaid or distracted and you should help him with this at home. He might be a mini-Einstein but if he doesn't do what is asked of him, he'll never achieve at school.

FFS, the poor child is 7 and a half!
Poor concentration and falling behind, having been once more able is considered [just one] of the traits in ADHD. I would get another angle on this by getting an assessment done. Ruling out an educational difficulty [and a child does NOT have to be 'hyper' to have this] will at least give you the chance of seeing if there is more to this than meets the eye, and therefore beyond your little boys control.
The situation with the Lego is typical again, he may be able to concentrate on the things that interest him, and the Lego took priority, not because he was being 'naughty', but it had more importance at the time to him.
Yes, you can be extreamly bright and have this condition too. You fall behind because of your neurological problems with screening out and concentrating. The above comment by Bonsoir is unhelpful as it assumes your son is doing this deliberatly, he WILL do well at school if he is understood and given the right support. Take a step back from looking into the crystal ball at A level results, and look to the here and now, and how you can best support your little boy.