School wants to move year 3 DD to yrR for literacy- yes or no?

[Dreameronastar]

Some of you may remember my thread on here last week about my DD- just gone into year 3 and can't read or write at all as such. She is able to memorize the letter patterns which make up a certain word and associate it with the correct sound if I go over it a hundred times over with her, but she's not actually 'reading' it, because she has no grasp of phonics at all. She moved to a new school in September for various reasons and the new school has only really begun to take any notice of how badly she is struggling- that's another story . Now they have proposed to me that DD goes to join a recpetion class for literacy Monday-Friday in order to go back over the basics.

I'm not really sure about it. Verbally DD seems to be very bright- vocabulary-wise apparently she is actually ahead of where she should be now, she just can't write anything down because she doesn't seem to have a clue about the basics. The school are saying that they want to get DD up to speed ASAP, but I'm worried that by not having any literacy lessons with her age group at all, she's going to fall behind with other things. There's more to literacy than just the reading and writing part and verbally DD's actually very good at making up stories, comprehension (if someone reads it to her) etc; I don't want her to fall behind with anything else. But I'm also aware that she badly needs to learn how to read and write and she can't do that in her regular literacy lessons.

And then there's the age issue: DD is almost 8 so there will be a 4 year age gap in the reception class, obviously not ability wise but certainly maturity wise. And I don't want DD to think she's stupid/other children to start saying things, she's having enough friendship problems as it is. Obviously I need to make a decision one way or the other, but not sure what to do for the best. Any advice?

Can't they get her some extra 1 to 1 help at lunchtimes or something? Surely that would be preferable to joining a reception class which would move pitifully slowly and also as you say not really be catering for her other strengths.

I really think that you ask if her class teacher can differentiate the lessons so she is reciving work in literacy in her year 3 class appropriate to her level. Then see if she can do 1-2-1 intervention with an LSA even for 15/20 mins per day? I really disagree with an 8 year old being sent to reception. Poor DD :(

Sounds odd.

An 8yo will be able to learn far far quicker thatn 4/5yos so it would seem odd to move her to reception.

Why has she not learnt her sounds before? Was it a problem with the previous school? I would get a tutor rather than send her to recpetion as a tutor can move at her own pace (faster).

NO!

I wouldn't agree personally. I think it will be difficult for her feeling like she's in with the little ones and it won't be apropriate for her. I would be asking for her to have 1 on 1 assistance at school and then I would be looking at getting her assessed to see whether there are any particular reasons that she has not picked up her phonics sounds and blending. I would also be teaching her at home to help her catch up if its literally that she is capable of learning but hasn't been taught properly.

what can/can't she read? can she blend cvc words like cat and dog?

Absolutely not !!!!!

She needs a phonics programme run daily 1 -1, for 15 - 30 mins. This could be run during morning assembly, registration, guided reading, general faffing time in the classroom, etc

Sounds very much like they are copping out on providing a specific programme targeted for your daughter. She is 8 NOT 4.

Good luck

No! They should be providing her with specialist help (even if they don't know how she was taught in the past). Re-teaching using old methods is like shouting at someone who is deaf; from your previous post I believe she has already been at school.
I would suggest you contact your local parent partnership, I am assuming you are in England, there is (or was ) a Scottish equivalent. They should be able to give you more advice on what a school in your area should be doing, which doesn't include putting her with reception children, which could be damaging in so many ways.

whoopeecushion- it's quite a long story; I'm not entirely sure as I've been loving abroad until a few months ago. DD has been living with my ex-husband- I haven't been in a position to look after her for a long time for health reasons. There were concerns of possible neglect/abuse whilst DD was with my ex husband from the previous school, though they never bothered to act on it. The upshot was that she got very little attention, her school attendance was poor and when she was there I think they wrote her off as a hopeless case. :( My ex husband knew she was struggling though did absolutely nothing about it, despite spending thousands on tuition for DD's step brother in preparation for an entrance exam into a top indie school, and unfortunately I wasn't able to be around enough to realize how bad it all was. DD is now living with me, and I'm trying to pick up the pieces and get her up to speed. Which is prooving to be a lot harder than first thought! :(

No! She needs targeted support based on what she already knows and can do, which can take her forward at a pace most suited to her.

No way!!!! What a terrible idea from the school!

no.

call the school ht and set up a meeting with ht, senco, class teacher and get your heads together and come up with a strategy.

i suggest urgent assessment by ed psych at a bare minimum, and possibly full assessment by developmental paediatrician. and camhs involvement if it is thought that her difficulties are due to family circs in the last couple of years and not spld. you should also suggest dyslexia assessment, but i suspect the results may be flawed if personal history could be impacting.

they should be providing a scribe for her yr 3 lit classes so that she does not fall further behind, and should be arranging 1-2 or small group work with her peers, NOT with yr r. she is 8 ffs.

if they cannot provide this level if intervention and suggest applying for a statement, and are suggesting ld, then i would start the ball rolling sooner rather than later.

poor wee lass. she has been badly let down by her previous school (and of course by xp, but you know that)

time to get this all sorted out now.

have you spoken to the previous school? i would suggest asking them in writing for any records pertaining to your daughter, including any allegations of abuse etc. have you met up with the senco to see what support was put in place?

if abuse or any child protection concerns were suspected, they will have had to report it. and make records. and if her attendance was poor, that will also have been recorded. this could all be really useful for you to know as you start to get everything stragihtened out.

if educational welfare were involved you could discuss it with them?

don't accept anything less than support for her now. it is not her fault that things have panned out the way they did over the last couple of years.

i assume your own health concerns are no longer relevent?

Dreameronastar - what have the school tried so far? Has she been seen by an EP and is she on an IEP?

Having read your other thread, keep helping her with her maths by lots of practical examples. Lots of counting - make it fun, getting her to physically count/move items so that she makes the connection between the number and the number of objects. This may take a while so persevere and lots of dice games

Can she give you all of the single sounds for each written letter. If she can, can she blend two sounds together, ie. a-t makes at. Then move onto CVC word blending, c-a-t makes cat.

Never give up hope though - your daughter will get there, it just takes some a bit longer

i'm guessing they haven't done anything, utah, as the op said they've only just noticed.

What a stupid idea!

If she is having problems memorising letter patterns, dealing with phonics, then what is the point of making her sit through more phonics?

If she is able to memorise letter patters, then I think that is the way to go. DS1 learned to read by recognising words. He is lucky in that he found learning to read easy, but he didn't do it phonetically, just by recognising words, so it can be done, even if it is a hard slog. This is what I'm now doing with DD, who doesn't really get phonics, as she can't hear the sounds in words.

It sounds like your DD needs specialist help, not just sticking in a reception class.

My son is 6 and started in Y2 in September. He has an independent plan, sees the senco every week, and the TA is working with him daily. He cant read or write (as we have come from overseas where they start school at 6), so they have started an enhanced reception literacy program for him. The idea is that he should read and write by February. He is so far meeting his targets and doing very well. It requires a lot of hard work on my part at home, with 15-30 minutes sessions both before and after school. The school wants him to stay with his peers, but want him up to the same level as the other children as soon as possible so that he can learn together with them the other subjects more easily.

Your poor DD, you're not based in SW London are you?

I'd definitely ask school what other support they can offer your DD. I think the age gap with reception would be a problem to her self-esteem. Targeted TA support seems more appropriate,
(speaking as someone who's been a Mum, teacher and TA)

My DD has mild dyslexia and her reading and writing trajectory followed a different path to the expected norm ( She struggled in y 1,2,3 &4 ) But caught up wonderfully in Y5 & 6. Now doing really well at secondary in Y8.

Hope you might find something similar happens with your DD ?

My DD missed all of Y3 literacy to do 'read, write, inc' which is a phonics program. (This was done with other Y3/4/5 kids who couldn't read)

End of the year she couldn't really read any better than she could at the beginning of the year - but she'd missed a whole year of literacy.

So this year I insisted she stay in for literacy. And now she gets 15 minutes 1:1 with a TA every day instead.

I believe any support should be additional to not a substitute for class teaching

Madwoman- thanks, didn't think of asking about a scribe, am going to arrange meeting with HT next week so will mention that then. :) The school have suggested dyslexia among other things- they actually seem incredibly keen to stick a label on her. Not really sure if that's a good thing? Old school have been useless, though new school have used what information they have given to suggest DD may have an attachment disorder- other than that, no help whatsoever.

No, my health problems hopefully should no longer be an issue.

Utah- EP has been suggested, though apparently DD is unlikely to see anyone through school until after xmas now. Her maths is improving slowly, there's just so much basic stuff she doesn't understand that it's taking a long time to get anywhere! No, she can't really give sounds for letters, same problem she has with numbers in associating the sound and concept to the character, if that makes sense.

Off to read the other responses, back in a minute!

Febreeze- yes, I'm in Kensington & Chelsea :)

Indigo- that's exactly what I'm afraid of. :(

Juggling- thanks, agree a TA working with her in addition to class literacy is much better plan. Now to persuade the school...

without being funny, she should absolutely be the priority for ed psych involvement. it's a total pita because they will have other kids who have been waiting in line, but something has to give, and they need some pointers.

has she had a complete health exam done, esp eyes and ears? i would just be double checking everything along the way tbh...

if they think attachment issues, has she been referred to camhs?

Madwoman- yep, done complete health exam. Eyes and ears fine, growth and development wise she's behind though no way near as horribly as she was in August.

What is CAMHS?