Sitting L6 papers in Year 6

[QuietAsAChildDrawingOnTheWalls]

DD's school said it will be putting some children forward for the L6 papers this year. At parents evening, her teacher said that DD will definitely be put in for the Maths paper as she is currently working at L5. She said the school were undecided what to do about English L6 papers (not sure why that is though?). DD is currently a L5/6 for reading, but on her last 'proper' timed assessment was' only' a L4 for writing, although she did do less well on the test than she does in class.
My questions (which only occured to me after parents evening) are: are there separate test papers for reading and writing or are they combined? If separate, how likely is it that DD will have to sit both given her lower writing score but bearing in mind she is usually strong in writing? If DD sits these L6 papers, with these be in addition to the usual papers, or will she have to sit both sets?
I know this is not hugely important, but would like to know in advance if DD is going to have to do 'more' exam in her eyes than most of the rest of her class...
TIA

oh, and forgot to say - this is not a stealth boast. I know DD is doing well at school, so no flaming please

I think (but please dont take this as gospel as I haven't done the L6 papers with chn myself) they are extensions only and so she has to do the 3-5 paper as well otherwise the school wouldn't have a score for her.

I wouldn't worry about her doing extra as, though exams are a pain, its often the build up that children dislike the most. Doing them is not as bad and its only 45 mins normally. But at the same time I don't see the point in her doing them and if she assessed as a 5 not a 6 then I might be asking the teacher not to enter her as its just extra fuss.

Yes, Level 3-5 have to be sat aswell. If a child isn't awarded a 5 in the first paper, then they can't be awarded a 6 in the next, even if they got enough marks.

I would only enter children assessed as working at level 6 in the classroom - no point in scraping a level.

Thank you both. That is helpful. I get what you are saying about only entering for L6 if working consistently at L6. Not sure that DD is likely to be doing so by May tbh, except in reading, so not quite sure why the school are saying they will get her to do at least one paper . Is reading a separate paper from writing btw?
I might reassure DD that I doubt she will be having to sit three 'extra' papers in May (although it is good to hear they aren't that long and arduous)

Yes, reading and writing are separate papers.

Interesting topic - I'm another parent whose DD is on the borderline and TBH I'd rather she didn't have extra papers to do. She's currently predicted a solid 5A in reading, writing and maths and really, I think that's good enough. Topic based parents' evening are in Feb so will be talking to DD's teachers about this one, YR6 is tough enough without additional stress, and once they're doing GCSEs no-one will care about what they did in Yr6.

It is interesting to me too. My dd was getting level 5A in year 5 and also got the same in year 6 and was getting 99% in the tests. She wasn't allowed to take a level 6 and the head tried his hardest to see if he could let her do it but the LEA said it was scrapped as children always failed it. The head just thought that she would easily pass it and wanted to see how she would get on with it, although what would it have achieved? We were already shunned by most parents because of my dd being bright, so that would have been the last straw if they got to know that she did a level 6! I suppose it would have been interesting to see how she got on at the time though. But she is now 12 and is on level 7's and 8's at high school so it must be about right.

There wouldn't have been anything to stop him teacher assessing her at level 6 or using any level 6 assessment materials internally though.

L6 papers will be sat the week after the other papers.

I really don't think a child who is working at a L6 will be stressed out by sitting a L6 test - and in fact they might like it.

Will it make a difference at secondary school level? Will she be restricted as to the sets she goes in if she doesn't do the level 6 papers?

It's going to be the top 1 or 2% of state school kids who get a L6, so it certainly won't effect what sets she gets into.

Thanks again all. I think I may say to school that unless they reckon DD is comfortably at a L6 at SATs time in Maths and Writing, that I would prefer her not to sit the extra papers (and I suspect she won't be as if she is a L6 it will be only just). She isn't the type who is keen to show what she can do iyswim, and doesn't even enjoy maths that much, even though she is quite good.

She would probably be happy to do the Reading paper though, as books are her thing. Do you think the school will take offence if I say this?! Will school do as I ask, or can they do what they like?

I assume the only real benefit for them getting L6's is to say 'oh, look, we are catering for our higher ability children' - something Ofsted have criticised them for in the past. They do have other children who they can put forward for these papers anyway, as DD has a few peers working at the same level as her afaik.

Thanks for your help.

My ds got 5c in maths at the end of year 5 and I have been told that he and some others will be sitting a Level 6 paper in the summer. There is no bitching from other parents and it is treated in a really positive way.

As far as I am concerned, he will do the normal SAT's test and it is this result that will be 'used'. The level 6 paper is just an extra, I suppose to see how he gets on. He is not stressed out by this, in fact says 'bring it on' (highly competitive!!). Surely is they fail/don't do very well on this paper it doesn't really matter because it is not where they are 'supposed' to be anyway. And if they get a 5b/a on the normal one, everyone will be chuffed because that is above average anyway?

I just can't get my knickers in a twist about it. It all becomes clear when they get to secondary school anyway, with this sort of thing well and truly forgotten about.

English on the other hand - well, you do well to read his writing!!

As far as I am concerned, he will do the normal SAT's test and it is this result that will be 'used'.

If he attains a level 6 in the externally marked level 6 paper, then that is the test result that will be 'used'.

They would have to go some though - that's asking for 4 sublevels of progress in just two thirds of a year.

Even 'good' progress is only 2 sublevels in one whole academic year.

The school don't need your permission to enter children for tests, Quiet.

Hi KerryBlue. Just in case you thought I was getting my knickers in a twist - I would like DD to be happy at school, and maybe, for her, sitting L6 papers might not be a good thing. Now I know they are additional to the usual ones, so she would have to potentially sit 6 papers, I think I'd prefer her not to do them (unless she is likely to ace them of course in which case no problem as she won't have a problem iyswim). If they will be a stretch for her though, which is more likely, then I think I would just rather school didn't do it.

I agree in the greater scheme of things it doesn't matter. I would just rather DD didn't get stressed unecessarily about something that isn't actually important.

Feenie - thanks for that. If a parent at your school asked for their child not to be put forward for an 'optional' test like this, would that be listened to do you think? Especially based on the idea that she is only a 5c atm?

I think a parent would be entirely justified in wanting to make sure the reasons for their child sitting a level 6 test - which should really only be that their teacher assessment is a 5a/6c at the moment.

A school would be foolish not to seek the cooperation of a parent, or to explain their motives clearly; although they don't need parents' permission, there is nothing to stop a parent saying their child happened to be ill that day, if they really thought sitting a level 6 test wasn't in their best interests.

Thanks again Feenie.
My plan then is to wait until the parents eve in the Spring term, and talk about it with her teacher then. Unless DD is, as you say, 5a/6c in Maths and Writing then, I will request she doesn't sit the extra papers. I will ask DD how she feels about taking the Reading one (I suspect she will be fine with taking that as she apparently got full marks on the L5 test at the end of last term, so that kind of thing is no trouble for her at all).
I wouldn't take her out of school to avoid sitting the tests - I think that sets a bad example to her, and I don't want to make it into a huge deal. If she does end up sitting one/all of them, I will minimise the importance of it for her - they are more about the school than her.
Sounds good, yes? Another minor problem solved by the power of MN (lol).

Kerryblue Agree with Feenie, they are assuming a lot of progress in little time.

The level 6 is good for the school with value added - going from a level 3 to a 5a doesn't let the school show if they are helping the children achieve more than expected.

I must say I find it odd that a child expecting level 5 would find year 6 stressful and wonder where the pressure is coming from.

Also it's no bad thing for high achievers to fail sometimes, and experiencing this pretty young on something not very important seems a good place to start. You try your best, sometimes it isn't good enough, but life still goes on.

jicky, I do agree with you somewhat. However DD is quite a dreamy child, who hates being 'timed' for anything. I know that she will have to accept that things like this are inevitable as she gets older, but she will already be doing a timed test when she sits the usual L5 tests, so I don't want her to have more pressure if there isn't much point.
With her reading, she would probably cruise a L6 paper, so no worries. Sitting a higher paper would be a positive thing, I think. With the other two, it will be harder for her, and I would prefer not to dent her confidence (especially as she doesn't enjoy maths anyway).
There are plenty of things thagt she isn't so good at, so she is not unfamiliar with 'failing'! She never gets picked for any parts in plays, or as team leader or for any awards at school, so it isn't as if she is a 'golden child' who never has to deal with disappointment...
She is still only 10.

No I didn't mean you are getting your knickers in a twist

I do agree that if you have a child for whom sitting the paper is going to stress out, then yes, it would not be worth it. I just know that for my ds it isn't because he knows he is above average anyway so that's OK. He does not feel any pressure from the suggestion of doing Level 6 at all, in fact feels proud that he 'can' iyswim. But that's just him.

I do admit to not knowing that much about these things though. But surely if a child has sat a Level 6 paper in year 6, when they move onto secondary school, that school is going to realise that they are above average, even if they failed it/didn't do very well? Just from the sheer fact that they have sat it.

Feenie, yes it does seem alot of levels to go through I agree. Again, not really knowing what I am talking about I suppose I am just trusting the school knows what it's doing. I have no idea what subjects need to be taught to do level 6 though.

And I know that alot of friends who have recently had children move to secondary school say that they do their own tests anyway and set them accordingly. And like pointything said upthread, when they are doing GCSE's, how they did in Year 6 is long forgotton.

My DD was another who was told by the school that she had to be content with 5As as it was impossible for any children to be entered for level 6 at primary. I wasn't v bothered either way - she would have liked the challenge but was happy with what she got.

Quiet I did mean your daughter in particular, just a general, it's not bad failing. Sorry if you thought I did.

Ds1 could have been a 'golden child' as far a school was concerned - we just kept finding him lots of out of school stuff that he enjoyed but would never be 'top' at.

One thing that I have realised from this thread is that some schools are putting more pressure on the children than the one the dc are at. I'm a governor and know about the level 6 and the hope that some children will get them this year, especially in maths. I also have a child in year 6 who is one of the two best mathematicians, so when we have noted that our goals are for a handful of children to get 6 I have assumed this will include him. Teachers haven't as far as I know spoken to the children or parents about this and I don't know if they will until quite close. Means no-one is worried about whether their children are sitting extra papers.