Some advice please!!!

[Msamber1]

We just recently moved into a new area, and have put ds1 and ds2 names down for schools. The school that is in our catchment area didn't have a place, so they offered a place for ds2 in another school, however it is not in catchment. Ds1 still doesn't have a place, although 2 weeks ago he was number 1 on the waiting list, because he had a sibling at the school, but since has become number 3 because 2 people have moved into the area, and they will get priority over him. I feel like he will never get a place because the school is full and only has two classes in each year group.we have now appealed, but i have a feeling it won't go through. Please offer some advice or any comments on personal experience. Thank you.

Have you accepted the place at the school for DS2? What are the admission criteria; importantly do they preference siblings over location?
How old are your children? This is crucial as classes can go over 30 when the children are in years 3 and up.
Are you on the waiting list for the local school? Are there any other schools you would consider/like? Are you on their waiting lists?

When did you move into the area? Is DS1 going to school somewhere? If not, your LA is seriously in breach of the Admissions Code. They MUST find a place for him. It doesn't have to be at your local school or your preferred school but they cannot simply wash their hands of him.

Also, all the questions mummytime asked!

For DS2 they have fulfilled their responsiblity by offering him a place. Have you accepted it?

Which LA are we talking about? If you don't want to post that information publicly, click on "Message poster" at the top of my post and send me a message. It may also be useful to know which school is involved.

We have accepted ds2 place. Priority is to children who live closest. So that's y ds2 keeps moving backwards, because the school is not on our catchment. Ds2 is meant to b in year 3, so now that you told me they can go over 30,that is a reassurance. We can only apply for 3 schools at a time, and he is on the waiting list for two other schools in the area.

Prh47bridge I have sent u a MSG. Ur advice has got me thinking, they should offer him palace somewhere.

Btw ds2 is in 1 of the schools that was on our list of chosen schools. We only have 1 school in our catchment area, which is full in both year groups.

Both your children need to be at the same school and the LA needs to make sure that happens. I understand from this they are both juniors? In which case the school should accommodate them both as there is no limit on class sizes.

"Both your children need to be at the same school and the LA needs to make sure that happens."
I'm not sure this is strictly true. Desirable for most, certainly, but many parents on here will report having been unable to get both/all their children into the same school. Different LEAs rank sibling priority differently.

I would prefer them to b at the same school, because it would be so much easier for me, but right now I just want ds2 to be at any school. Which is not too far to get to. Also ds1 is in infants. Ds2 is in juniors.

Shouldn't that be DS1 is in Juniors, DS2 in infants??

Sorry yh, had to think about that about 100 times. U r right. Ds1 should b juniors, and ds2 has a place in reception.

I think I wrote it wrong in 1 of the earlier posts, sorry for the confusion. Lol. It's that time of the day.

RiversideMum is wrong. The LA is not required to ensure that both children attend the same school.

Is DS1 on the waiting list for the school DS2 is now attending? Having taken a look at the LA's admission criteria he would get sibling priority. Unfortunately that would still leave him behind any in-catchment children.

Given what you have said in your PM to me about how long you have lived in the area it is clearly time to get tough. Write to the Admissions Manager at the LA (email will do) and point out you have now been waiting 3 months for a place for your son. Tell them that they have 7 days to come up with a place or you will refer their failure to comply with the Admissions Code to the Local Government Ombudsman.

I would also consider appealing for a place for DS1. You can appeal for any of the schools you named as preferences, although in your situation I would go for the school DS2 is attending. You can, of course, appeal for more than one school if you want. This may trigger the LA to offer a place. If they don't, given that DS1 is in juniors and has been without a school since September, I would say you have a good chance of winning an appeal.

Really surprising, because I didn't know u can appeal for more than 1 school at a time. I'm going to confirm that with LA. but thnx for telling me that. I have put an appeal in, which is due to b heard in two weeks, DS1 is on waiting list for the same school, and yes you are right about the sibling/ catchment thing. Which leaves him behind. Considering we have appealed, would u advise that I wait for the appeal, or to drop an email anyway. It's just that LA don't really explain things properly, and don't advise what is the best way forward. They kinda expect you to know everything.

If the appeal is only two weeks away I would concentrate on winning that. I am very surprised they haven't come up with a school when there is an appeal so close. The appeal panel normally has to compare the appeal school with the offered school. Here, if nothing changes, they will be comparing the appeal school with no school at all.

Have you had the LA's case for the appeal yet?

Yes, jus received today, but the school has Wrote a letter to say, they cannot accept more than 30 children due to health and safety reasons, and that's what got me down, thinking we will not probably win.
They still haven't offered a place, at any school.

The only other thing is, although I put everything down on the form, we asked for a written appeal do u think that can get changed, to us attending.

You should be able to change it so that you can attend the appeal.

Health and safety reasons is usually a pretty weak argument. Find out if they have been over 30 chidren in any year in KS2 (i.e. Y3-Y6) before. If they have you can raise this in the appeal and ask how many reportable accidents happened as a result of overcrowding. The answer will almost certainly be none. If there aren't any years with over 30 pupils in KS2 at the moment, ask the LA if it has happened before.

Can you tell me exactly what the LA and school say? I and the other experts may be able to suggest lines of attack to point out any weaknesses.

For your own case to the appeal, I would tell the panel that the LA is in clear breach of the Admissions Code as you applied for a place for DS1 3 months ago and they have not yet offered a place at any school. If there are no places available within a reasonable distance they are required to offer one under their Fair Access Protocol but they have not done so and are showing no signs of coming up with a place. You are therefore asking the panel to admit your child so that he can return to school without further delay.

Thnx for that advice, if you don't mind me asking do you specialise in advice or been through with a School appeal, You are really good, and giving me some great advice. Spoke to appeals today, and they have accepted the request for me to go personally??

What information would you like to know more about?

If you look around you'll see that I give a lot of advice about admissions matters. I have been through a few appeals, both for one of my own children and helping others.

I would like to know what the LA say in their case to refuse admission, including the contents of the letter from the school. It is probably quite long so a summary will do. The class arrangement would also be useful.

If you can scan the documents, let me know and I'll PM you an email address you can use to contact me. That would be less effort for you than typing them in here!

I have PM you. Thnx.

From your posts and what PRH has said it seems that the LA have broken the admissions code by not offering a place for your year 3 son. I can not believe that they are going to appeal on the basis of health and safety when they have a child without a school place for three months.
The one thing that strikes me is whether this is actually a faith school who are their own admission authority, which may explain the apparent lack of zeal to do anything. Is it a faith school or a community school?
I would be amazed if they do not make you an offer of a school place before the date of the appeal, because that is the only way they can mount any kind of defense for not admitting. Unless the offered school place is the school that you want, you need to turn the offer around into another reason for the panel to give you the place you want. The way to do that is to show how long the LA have failed to provide this school place and how conveniently immediately before the appeal they come up with a totally inappropriate school place.

No it's not a faith school, just a normal community school.