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Primary education

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Original poster

DS Year 6 - Way below average

32 replies

stellsie · 13/11/2011 19:36

Last week had parents evening with DS teacher. He is in Year 6 at a middle school (we have the 3 tier system where we live). His teacher started with some positives; 'tries his very best', 'very polite, helpful', 'happy and sociable boy'. So me and DH very pleased! However, he then went onto say that DS is way below average in pretty much every subject Sad He said 'if this is a row of children and at this end is a very academic child, DS would be right at the other end'. (if I'd been feeling sensitive I could have sobbed but I held it together!) I then asked 'are you saying he is thick?' - and he said 'no, he shows signs of being bright'. ??!

He went on to say that DS's memory is very poor, and this will affect him for every subject. He is very good at reading, but if the teacher asks him to tell him something about what he has just read, he struggles and cannot remember what he has read.

Does anyone have any idea of how we can help our DS? Smile He is a lovely boy and when we came home we praised him highly for all the positives but said he needs to work on concentrating more in class and trying to remember what he's learnt.

By the way, he is 10 -not 11 till July so one of the youngest.

Thanks

OP posts:
jarralass · 13/11/2011 19:46

Hi,

Just posted a similar tread regarding recall. My DS is 6 (yr 2) teacher said almost exactly the same to us. DS has a poor memory and can't always recall. I've looked up poor working memory and this seems to fit. Teacher advised us to try and play memory games with him. Eg. show him a tray of 8 items and take one away can he remember which one has vanished. Also if your cooking or shopping give him a few things to remember, can he, when prompted?

hockeyforjockeys · 13/11/2011 20:33

Have previous teachers raised concerns about this? It seems strange that a child would get to Year 6 without you being well aware of these difficulties if they are as extreme as the teacher seems to be implying. Did he talk about your ds getting any additional support, being assessed by the SENCO etc. If not then I would ask for another meeting and go back with specific questions which you will have had time to research and prepare.

I would second the advice to play memory games though, there are plenty online as well which your ds could do with you or independently.

Original poster
stellsie · 13/11/2011 20:59

thank you both, i will try online for memory games to see if that will help DS. hockeyforjockeys - no, no other teachers have mentioned memory problems before, and DS's teacher did not mention additional support, he just suggested that we try at home with for instance, getting DS to read a page of a book and then get him to tell us what was going on in that part of the story.

will have chat with DH (he is away till friday) when he gets home and suggest a meeting.

thanks again,

OP posts:
hockeyforjockeys · 13/11/2011 21:27

If it hasn't been mentioned before and the teacher hasn't suggested anything other than you working at home with him, then I wonder if he really is 'way below average'. I often give similar advice where I have a child who is slightly behind, and I know one of the main reasons is that they have a relatively poor memory (in comparison to the average). The reading strategy is useful so would suggest you do this. However if I had serious concerns about their memory and the child was very far behind, then I would be pushing for the child to be assessed by the SENCO and put on the special needs register.

Do you know what his national curriculum levels are or were at the end of Year 5? It would be helpful to know so we could tell you how far behind he is. If he wasn't identified as having any issues previously, do you think one of the issues is that he is struggling to adjust to his new school? I have had this issue before where a child appears to not remember what they have just done/been taught, but it turns out that they are just very anxious about not getting the answer wrong so clam up. It usually rectifies itself as they become more relaxed in their new situation.

Original poster
stellsie · 14/11/2011 06:34

I have emailed DS teacher and asked what his national curriculum levels were at the end of year 5, i will post on here as soon as i receive a reply! Thanks Smile

OP posts:
KatyJ26 · 14/11/2011 06:49

You need to get his teacher to get him assessed by the school SENCo. You need to know which particular part of memory he is struggling with, is it long term memory, short term memory, working memory, auditory processing etc there are lots of different aspects and his teacher needs to be more specific so that you can target exactly what it is he needs help with. I agree with the last person, when we know his levels, we may be able to help some more xx

VonHerrBurton · 14/11/2011 09:09

I bet, if you can't remember roughly what his levels were in July, then you probably don't have to worry too much. 'Way below average' - you would have realised by his Y5 report, and they would have stuck in your head.

This teacher's style may just be a bit, erm, blunt, iyswim. Your DS sounds lovely and I know you're worried, but surely someone should have raised this with you before now if it really was an issue.

IndigoBell · 14/11/2011 09:54

Firstly I think you should test his working memory to see if he does actually have a problem with that. Or if he has a different problem, that looks to the teacher like a working memory problem.

You need to call out some digits and get him to reverse them, ie you say '2, 5, 8' and he has to say '8, 5, 2' ( Google 'reverse digit test for working memory' and you will find heaps )

AFAIK if he can reverse 4 digits his working memory is fine, if he struggles to reverse 3 digits then he does have a working memory problem.

You need to know whether it's working memory or not so that you can decide which memory games are the right ones to play.

I've hugely improved DDs working memory, but not through playing memory games.

ragged · 14/11/2011 11:20

It wouldn't surprise me if he's slipped thru the cracks exactly because he's so nice & well behaved, he didn't become disruptive even if he found academics tough. Such kids can be overlooked.

Sorry I don't have any great advice for you OP, other than be pleased he's such a nice person. You may have to become his advocate and more pushy, since he can fall off the radar too easily for his own good.

KatyJ26 · 14/11/2011 11:43

If you do decide to administer your own tests, I would do it with caution.... Try doing that reversing digit test yourself- it is notoriously difficult! I find it hard and I know I have no working memory problem! Specialist teachers and educational psychologists undergo a lot of training to be able to administer such tests and thus give suggestions as to appropriate interventions that might help. I still think your first point of contact should be the school SENCo. Hope this goes some way to help you and not confuse you further! xx

IndigoBell · 14/11/2011 11:51

There are a load of reverse digit online tests you can do for free if you don't want to administer it yourself.

It's really not rocket science.

5 - 9 digits is normal memory span for an adult.

Original poster
stellsie · 15/11/2011 15:47

Here is the reply from DS's teacher with regards to his levels:

At the end of Year 5 his levels as judged by the staff who were teaching him during year 5 were,

Reading - Level 3C
Writing - Level 3C
Maths - Level 2b
Science - Level 3C

Any advice/opinions you can give me will be gratefully received ((waits nervously)), thanks Smile

OP posts:
IndigoBell · 15/11/2011 16:52

He's over a year behind in Reading, Writing and Science, and 3 years behind in maths :(

Original poster
stellsie · 15/11/2011 16:55

OMG! Sad So....IndigoBell, I am assuming you are a teacher? Where do I go from here?

Thank you for your help so far...

OP posts:
crazygracieuk · 15/11/2011 16:58

It sounds like he's behind. 2b is the end of y2 national average. 2a/3c is the end of y3 national average.Are his grades the same now? What is his end of y6 target? 4b would be the national average for end of y6.

hocuspontas · 15/11/2011 17:01

Is this the first time you have heard doubts raised about his progress? I'd be raging if it was. Shock A 7-year old is expected to get a 2B in maths. You need to talk to the school about what they are going to do about it and how you can help him at home.

Original poster
stellsie · 15/11/2011 17:01

God, why is he so behind? Feel very worried now and sad for DS.

OP posts:
Original poster
stellsie · 15/11/2011 17:03

Yes hocuspontas this is the first time they have informed me that he is struggling, this much anyway. I'm going to be emailing his teacher tonight.

OP posts:
SparklyGothKat · 15/11/2011 17:07

My dd1 is in year 7 now, and her sats results in year 6 were 2-3s apart from reading which was a U (ungraded) we knew she has learning difficulties tho.
The school senco should do an assessment of his levels and find out where his problems are.

hocuspontas · 15/11/2011 17:10

At least he isn't going onto secondary school just yet. Don't be sad Sad, just be glad that you know now. (I'd be having words with the HT though)

Iamnotminterested · 15/11/2011 17:12

stellsie Feeling for you, I hope you get some answers and your son his schools' support.

crazygracieuk · 15/11/2011 17:15

I think you urgently need to talk to the school and find out what his grades have been since y1 and find out what extra support they have offered your ds and demand assessments. I'd also be organising a hearing test and behavioural optometrist test too. I'd be livid with the school if they'd never even hinted that your son wAs struggling.

themightyfandango · 15/11/2011 17:19

Really feel for you OP. My DS year 6 is also very behind. I didn't realise how much until the end of yr 5.

It may not seem like it but the teacher probably did you a favour. DS's teachers have tended to us phrases like 'he's almost reeached his target for this year'. What they don't tell you is that 'his target' is way lower than everyone elses.

I took DS to an ed psych which cost around £400. I now know that he has a very poor working memory and poor visual processing speed so dyslexic basically. It doesn't change anything but I feel I know what I am working with now iyswim.

I feel annoyed that the school did not pick it up, I think they thought he was thick (he's not, if you listen to him talk you can tell that). Because he was quiet and well behaved he went unoticed. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending how you look at it) his behaviour, due to self esteem and frustration, went rapidly downhill, this prompted the ed psych.

Since then I have been on a mission to improve his self esteem and abilty, currently he has super strength fish oil (MORE EPA Junior). Drum and guitar lessons as he is quite musical and extra maths classes.

Some of this is having an effect but it is slow hard work. We are applying for a private school for next year as I have lost faith in the state schools helping him. Financially it will be a stretch and something I may not have had to consider if he had had earlier intervention at primary.

I hope you are able to get some help for your DS. If you don't get very far with the school or feel you need an advocate try contacting your local Parent Partnership.

aquafunf · 15/11/2011 17:53

we had very similar with DD. i paid for an ed psych and it made a huge difference. basically dd was off the scale in some areas ( over 17 years ability) but has poor working memory ( that of a 6 year old) and cannot copy from the board.
we are also 3 tier system (bedfordshire). the middle school were utterly useless but she has just started at upper school and it is like a different experience for her.

i sent her to private school for year 7 and it was an expensive disaster.

i think that what she needs, and she is now getting is a lot of reinforcement- so we do 10 mins of maths every night. and we go over the same stuff a lot. we will work out the answers to the questions together and compare and work backwards. maths is particularly difficult because with quite a lot of it, if you cant remember basic principles you are stuffed!

in science, once i had convinced the teachers that they there is nothing they can do to make her write down the method in the time allocated,because of her learning disability they found a way round it.

KatyJ26 · 15/11/2011 18:32

When you speak to head teacher, ask for his levels from year 1 upwards. Every child is expected to make 2 sub levels progress every year e.g if he was a 2b in maths at end of year 5, he would be expected to make a 3c by the end of year 6. By doing this, you will highlight which year groups he did not make the expected progress and you can then question why extra support was not put in place despite the school knowing he was not making progress ( hope that makes sense!) don't worry that he is not academically 'average' who cares... focus on his strengths and keep his self esteem boosted, alongside making sure the school do their bit so that he is able to reach his own potential xx

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