DD being led astray by another girl in her class

[peppajay]

My 5 yr old DD is being led astray by another child in her class and there behaviour together is becoming disruptive to the rest of the class. The teacher splits them up at all times and during lesson time she suceeds but at carpet time they move closer together and always end up causing trouble. This other little girl does have special needs and is emotionally very immature. My DD is no angel and does have a mischevious streak in her but when her friend was off school for a week before half term, the teacher said my DD was a different child and was so good and was getting gold stars and certificates of good work all week but as soon as her friend came back she started being disruptive again. Last yrs teacher was a bit older and more experienced and she admitted that the other girl is in the ring leader and my DD follows but this yrs teacher is very soft and she is very non commital about who is causing the problem.

If the problem persists into next term they will have to split them up but I am worried that they will put my DD in another class as she doesn't have the emotional issues that her friend does. Altho she knows children in the other classes and she would probably be ok I don't think it is fair on her. All the school always says is you have to make allowances for her friend coz of her circumstances!! I think strictness is the way to stamp it out no pussyfooting around but her teacher seems so weak in this she is all for praising the good and then the bad will stop. Apparently at lunchtime my DD never misbehaves coz she has the strictest lunchtime lady in the school and she will stand for no nonsense!!! Also at the groups my DD attends out of school away from this other child her behaviour is fine but her friend seems to be disruptive where ever she is.

I just don't want my daughter to suffer because of this child and she absolutely loves going to school and I don't want this to change.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks x

I understand what you are saying but it means she is going to have to go into a new class new teacher etc make new friends when she is so happy where she is and academically she is fine. It could be the best thing for her but I can also see it going wrong and her enthusiam for school waning somewhat. After talking to people yesterday it does seem that they are only a problem for this 1 teacher so shouldn't she try and sort it rather than take the easy way out and split them!!

Some children are just poor friendship combinations for whatever reasons, and to be a sheep and follow is as bad a choice as to be the instigator of mischief.
I agree with all those saying focus on developing your own child's understanding of how to stay out of trouble and don't blame other children for your daughter's behaviour.

I don't mean that a DC should behave how they want I means that it is a parents job to be the shield between them and a given situation and that the DC should know that that is the case. The OP has illustrated how damaging it can be if a child is not secure in unconditional love. It is the job of the parent to guide (strongly if needs be) towards the required good behaviour also to fight their corner. Not making my point v clear.
I also agree that it has a lot to do with the teacher. The girls should not be allowed to drift back together on the carpet (repeatedly) and it does seem her DD will have to undergo a big change of a new class because the teacher's discipline is weak. I would be pissed off about that too.
Not sure what you can do about it though.

Presumably this is also disruptive of your own dd's learning , is that "fair" ? Yes the teacher should do whatever is practical to minimise the opportunities for them to misbehave together in the classroom, but that may mean moving either one of them to the other class. I doubt they perceive her as weak and conspire to misbehave for her specifically, it just sounds like a habit now. However you now know that in certain circumstances your child is capable of doing this and need to address it as it could surface again even if she/other girl changed class. Telling her to "behave" is too general and meaningless to a 5 yo, asking her to sit away from her friend on the carpet might be more realistic.

Peppajay try to see this as an opportunity for dd to learn one of the best lessons in life - how to defend yourself against bullies.

If this girl is cajoling your daughter into bad behaviour then you need (with the teacher's help) to find a way of teaching her how to defend herself from the manipulation.

Last yrs teacher was a bit older and more experienced and she admitted that the other girl is in the ring leader and my DD follows but this yrs teacher is very soft and she is very non commital about who is causing the problem.

They will not be keen to discuss other children with you, that's pretty normal.

As for who moves class, that's a tricky one and I would imagine there are a lot of things to take into consideration, not just who causes the most problems.

Have you tried talking to your DD and telling her that she might be moved classes if she doesn't stop being naughty with the other girl?

What about encouraging friendships with other kids in the class (have them over for tea etc) so that she is less inclined to play with her current friend?

Bullying?
Entertainer and audience, mischief-maker and acolyte sprang to mind rather than the usual knee-jerk cry of 'bully'

Also she could try to ask others to include the other girl at playtoe, so it becomes a less exclusive friendship iyswim - perhaps the lunchtime supervisors could be made aware . If she has SEN it is possible she has social issues and may be targetted for support to overcome them.

so now the DD is being bullied? FFS

I said 'If' she's being led into bad behaviour. I don't know any more than you do whether this is happening (or whether it's the other way round). I guess my tactic here is to consider it as an opportunity for development rather than a battle with the school/otherchild.

OP - your concern is only with what YOUR dd is doing, never mind anybody else's kid. The other girl is not within your jurisdiction, but your own daughter is. You cannot continually pin your dd's bad behaviour on her being led astray...or you can, but you'd be kidding yourself.

Your dd chooses to misbehave WITH this other girl, not BECAUSE OF, ok? Get that straight in your head and then deal with it from there.

Good luck x

"ok so you are all of you are of the understanding to stick up for the other child and not my own, so maybe my parents were right!! I always swore I would stick up for my child as my mum and dad never listened to my side of the story and whenever I got into trouble it was always my fault never anybody elses. I always now blame myself for everything as that is what I was taught to believe, my fault my ex abused me, my fault when a colleague stole the petty cash and blamed me. I don't how to defend myself as I never had my parents sticking up for me always the other child. Other kids always had their parents going up the school defending them. I used to dream that one day my dad would think actually mayhbe sometimes it is someone else causing the problem. Ok so it is my daughters fault and I will keep on letting her believe she is a naughty worthless girl whose mum always thinks other children are better than her, just like my dad made me feel!! "

Op...I didn't see this post before. Now that i have read it, I understand that your daughter couldn't possibly be at fault, and it IS the other little girl through and through.

I think a new, more carefully worded thread would be a good idea, OP - none of the reactions are your fault, it's just people's sometimes rushed and unconsidered opinions. She's still a cute little 5 year old and a sponge to learning - all things, good and bad. You are right to intervene in some way - I found the best way with kids like these is to invite them round so you can see what really goes on. The trouble is when you're not there you don't know what is really happening. Sometimes teaching assistants can write down antecendent behaviours and detailed observations where behaviour problems exist. IMO nobody can do anything about this unless they know exactly how the incidents happen.

I think it is a little unfair to assume that the other little girl is manipulative just because the OPs dd misbehaves in her company. Perhaps she is just a cute little 5yo like the OPs dd, who just finds it hard to behave.

My ds is the kind who will take the colour of his surroundings: he will behave very well when with quiet well behaved children but play the clown when he is with other clowns. This doesn't mean the other boys are manipulating him or twisting his arm to do things; it just means he is immature and needs to learn to think about his own behaviour. Which is what we are working on.

OP you are working out your own issues on your child.

Don't.

It's not about you. Your DD is just learning about friendships, don't take it all so personally, she'll be fine. That is unless you refuse to see that your DD behaves this way because for some reason she likes doing it, not because some machiavellian 5 year old has discovered and perfected the secrets of brainwashing..... And if that unlikely scenario is true then moving class is probably the best result.

Why is the other child the instigator?

And this is a situation that your dd is going to come up against, again and again throughout her life. Part of growing up is about learning how to behave- and not always following others. What are you going to do if your dd gravitates to another 'naughty' child?

Your opening post asks for advice, so I think mine is...take the class change and be happy! If being away from this child makes such a difference, then I'd be getting dd into the other class like a shot, if it was me

secondly, if the other girl is so emotionally under developed, how could she have the skills to manitpulate your dd?? I suspect that you might have to consider the obviously remote possibility that your dd is more involved than you'd like to think.

If you ask for advice round here, expect that not all of it will say and perhaps consider that there may be something in what is said

OP, I think Katie has a good point: you are still so sore from your own past- and quite understandably, it sounds awful- that you fail to see that it has nothing to do with your dd's situation.

She doesn't need a solution based on how you feel about something totally different that happened to you, she needs a solution that makes life easier for her.

When I found issues of my own was clouding my judgment as a parent, I got counselling for them, precisely because I didn't want them to get in the way of seeing my dcs' situation clearly.

For your dd it would be better if you could stop seeing the world in black/white, instigator/victim and think more in terms of problem-solving.

'except that not all of it will say what you want to hear....

doh! if only I proof read..

OP you are working out your own issues on your child.

That's a good point. I think we all do it to a certain extent, I know I do, but just try not to go to the other extreme as that is just as damaging and you're child won't thank you for it.

I have a friend whose parents disciplined her harshly and it ways that could be said to be cruel, so she has made the decision not to discipline her children AT ALL. Not good.

eyebrows Must be hard to watch a friend mess it up like that! Watch out for neglect - lack of boundaries / staying up late / overeating - can all add up to neglect in the eyes of SS.