Charging for Design Tech materials

[nomiddlename]

I'm so cross having just read a letter sent home from my dd's middle school (yr 5). The new DT teacher is asking that all parents 'contribute' £5.00 for the materials they buy for DT projects.

I'm really annoyed that for a curriculum subject, we have to pay (and yes, I can afford it but that's not the point). Can you imagine if the english dept. sent a letter home saying that we had to pay for books the kids have to read?

Then it says, that if you don't pay the fiver, after your child has made the thing, it will be dismantled so the bits can be recycled - how cruel is that?!!!

Surely for a standard curriculum subject, either the school could ask for the odd thing (ie, cardboard box/loo roll etc) and the school provides things such as clay/paint etc or the PTA raise money so that the cost of materials can be subsidised.

Do other schools charge for DT materials at primary age?

These are children, with no independent funds.
As evidenced by your first post, parents complain if they are asked to pay for things, education should be free. Parents complain about trips, fundraising, dressing-up days. You name it, if it is any sort of inconvenience to a parent there will always be a cohort who will grumble.
It is easier to pay for a few items for the class, or resources for the individual, than to argue with senior management for funds, or deal with grumpy parents or beg from the PTA and have to justify your professional opinion as to why the resource is needed. Every time.
It is less stressful to pay than to try and manage without or to see a child struggle when the correct resource can help them or enrich their experience of school.
I don't understand why you find this so incredible.

Someone just sent this to me on facebook, so teachers using their own money isn't such a big secret to many!
a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/387285_2639309862403_1245216667_3171589_9825553_n.jpg

Spot on downbytheriverside! Yes you always have a group who complain e.g. why no trips/ trips too expensive and so on. We often find that parents with the least money pay up most readily and appreciate the experiences you arrange for their kids.

I also have 3 kids of my own and earn more than DH. My own kids books have always ended up on the shelves, old football shirts become spare PE kit and so on. I must be honest I'm not a great one for donating to charities (due to the hidden admin charges- cynical me) but I feel I do my bit for others in a different way. These are the choices that some teachers make in order to do the best for their pupils. I don't keep buying random stuff, but if I see something useful that I can run an interesting lesson with then I may buy it.

The teachers in my school are always very keen to share their personal resources with each other. My own kids also attended this school and have benefited, I am sure, from odd things their teachers have bought over the years. I teach in an inner city area with high levels of deprivation and lots of the kids have FSM, maybe I wouldn't do this if I was in a middle class area..... but I probably still would!

This thread made me laugh. I love that people think it shouldn't be necessary for teachers to pay for resources.
Sadly it is necessary. I work in a secondary school. I buy resources for my lessons because we have no money in the budget. Its not bad planning - it's the fact that we as a school have been given less cash. Just ask the 6 teachers made redundant at the end of last year because we don't have funds for them this year.

' I teach in an inner city area with high levels of deprivation and lots of the kids have FSM, maybe I wouldn't do this if I was in a middle class area..... but I probably still would!'

I've worked for extended periods in both sorts of areas. Yes, you would.

'My own kids books have always ended up on the shelves'
That's not paying though with your own money - that's like donating stuff your kids no longer read to Oxfam etc.

Slightly different than going to a shop, buying school resources and paying with your own switch card.

I think that the curriculum should be structured in such a way that teachers don't need to pay.

I have to say there seems to be a 'look at us paying for all these resources out of our pocket - aren't we great?' thing going on here.

If this was a professional company, it would not happen. And please don't say it's the public sector because it isn't - it's just teachers. My DH would go spare if we paid the equivalent of 3 food shops towards teaching resources.

Perhaps if you all said no we're not paying, then more would be done to sort out the govt. budgets but as you don't, the school management teams must be rubbing their hands with glee.

I have to say there seems to be a 'look at us paying for all these resources out of our pocket - aren't we great?' thing going on here.

No, I'd say they were giving you a reality check.

If this was a professional company, it would not happen. And please don't say it's the public sector because it isn't - it's just teachers.

People in professional companies are often pressured into Secret Santa, pay for their Christmas parties, get on a flight on Sunday to get to an overseas office for Monday when contracted hours are Mon to Fri, accept overtime through fear of losing their job, don't charge the company for the coffee that they have on the motorway while driving to another office etc.
I bet it's not just teachers too. Most human beings would offer someone in need "help"- even if it put them out of pocket.

Perhaps if you all said no we're not paying, then more would be done to sort out the govt. budgets but as you don't, the school management teams must be rubbing their hands with glee.

Government budgets for education are probably set years in advance. If the government increased the education budget how long do you think it would get to trickle down to the individual school? I bet the time is measurable in school years not weeks. Why would school management teams rub their hands with glee? Surely they would prefer their colleagues to have more income as they were once teachers who bought things for their class.

If I wasn't on MN I'd have no ideas that teachers regularly paid for resources out of their own money and that the coach takes up most of the school trip costs.

"Of course it's sad when the govt. don't provide ample budget but I can't believe that teachers actually then pay for the stuff themselves."

Every teacher I know buys stuff out of their own pocket for school. The thing is, you know you can do a better lesson and provide a better learning experience for the children if you have resource x, y, or z and you know that there is no school money for it, so you buy the stuff in order to do the best lesson you can and make your classroom environment as conducive to learning as possible. I think it tends to go with throwing your heart and soul into your work and being passionate about what you do. It is really hard to be passionate with inadequate resources.

My mum was a teacher before she retired ( I am in a family of them!). In the 1970's and 80's she spent weeks of school holidays painting and decorating classrooms because they hadn't been decorated for 20 years+ and the county council said they didn't have money to do it (before budgets were devolved to schools). Goodness knows how much money she spent on school in her whole career but it must have been thousands! I don't think she was (or is) that unusual.

'I have to say there seems to be a 'look at us paying for all these resources out of our pocket - aren't we great?' thing going on here.'

No I don't think that I'm great actually, but your first post was complaining about being asked to provide a small amount for DT resources at school, we all just got into the discussion about resources for school.
Pay it or don't pay it, no odds to me. Perhaps we should go back to writing on slates or something as I am sure it would be cheaper.

Not that much respect for teachers on MN TBH, we are generally considered a bunch of highly paid slackers working 9-3 and just marking time until our next holiday. I care very much about the pupils in my class, I sometimes buy things if I need them for work, I sometimes donate things instead of selling them on at a boot sale. I enjoy my job very much and don't consider that I work harder or my job is more stressful than anyone else's. I don't consider that I am taken for a ride by the senior management but if I want to do something a bit different then I may end up bearing some cost. Would you like us to be like MPs and charge for every petty cost? It didn't do much for their reputation did it.

When I taught in FE I spent £80 on one 12 week evening class - there were no resources and no staff around to get stuff from in the evenings I taught - not that the cheapy local college would have provided it anyway. It was completely normal. I got paid £680 for teaching this class and out of that I spent £62 on printing and £80 on resources.

When I did my nurses training I often bought magazines/newspapers/soft foods for patients. This was also really common amongst the nursing staff.

And I am definitely not saying 'oh, look how great I am' - that would be crazy, I just want to point out that it was completely normal. The health service and schools are chronically underfunded and honestly rely on a MASSIVE amount of good will by the staff and parents.

And my dh works in secondary managing a budget and last week he asked me to lend him £120 for 12 pointy laser thingies (and go and buy them) as his staff had now waited a year for them (2 companies have gone bust that were supposed to be providing them).

I have said yes as he has had an email from the Dep Head that he WILL be reimbursed for them. Otherwise I wouldn't.

The PSA are there to raise funds for things that the students can benefit from such as coach costs/trip costs etc.

I'm only in my early 30s and when we were at school, the only trips we went on were to the local church (which we loved), the river so we walked, the woods so we walked and perhaps a theatre trip once (for the yr 4s).

This was plenty of time outside the classroom. What is wrong with simply learning in class with minimal, cheap resources, like 1000s of other students have over the last 50 years. Everything now is so enhanced, that's the reason why teachers are paying for resources.

That said, I paid the fiver this morning

Clopper it's different if you decide to buy stuff to make your lessons more interesting. I'm not complaining about that because that is your choice.

However, it's money for things that are considered necessary to learning, such as materials for design-tech.

You will be not be sacked for not paying with your own money!

I don't believe that the children you teach will miss out if only the usual resources are used. It's amazing what you can plan with no or free resources for all sorts of learning topics.

Things have moved on! In my day science was the nature table now it is forces, properties of materials and so on, we didn't learn French/ Spanish, there was no ICT. Are you Michael Gove? Special needs were often ignored and people with dyslexia were made to feel stupid and worthless, would you really want to turn back the clock 50 years?

We still do visits to the church, mosque and so on, but even these are more complicated with risk assessments and helpers having CRB checks. Roads are busier to cross anything near water is often regarded as too risky due to Health and Safety. Many inner city school have no playing field or green area.
Children and parents expect more these days.

Anyway I am glad you paid the £5!

'I don't believe that the children you teach will miss out if only the usual resources are used.'

What do you think usual resources are? Toilet roll inners/ egg boxes? We are not allowed to use a lot of these things any more unfortunately due to ... you guessed it, health and safety! I agree you can plan lots of interesting things with free resources and imagination.

I don't think children miss out, but sometimes a few quid can give a more memorable and exciting experience, interesting materials to work with etc. My own children have had access to all sorts of craft equipment, but not all children do. The school, quite rightly in my view, concentrates the bulk of expenditure on English, Maths and ICT resources.

'You will be not be sacked for not paying with your own money!' Teachers know this. It has been going on for years though.

You can teach forces and properties of materials without resources with things that are already in school.

Oh and I hadn't heard of Michael Gove until I just read this I think he speaks sense.

Yes you can teach forces with things that are in school, it was just an illustration of how the curriculum has changed and expanded in primary school. Some of the things I teach in upper primary were taught to me in years 7 and 8 when I was at school 30 years ago.

Yes Michael Gove does have some interesting things to say, but my main point is that teaching 50 years ago, as now, had flaws, although they were different. The article in the sun you've quoted could be written by any politician wanting to get elected though couldn't it, and it is what most people believe. 50 years ago the less able were ignored and left behind, so whilst I agree with the whole uniform, discipline, parent partnership aspect it isn't perfect to go back to a model of 50 years ago. I am sure you are a caring parent who does the best for your kids and would support their teachers, not all parents are like that believe me.

I only pasted that article as it was the first one I saw that could tell me who he was. I know it was a just a generic blurb.

The point I was trying to convey was that resources (imo) aren't as important as teaching. Yes, they help to enhance a lesson but they aren't vital.

Using IWBs as an example - they're a nice to have but are always breaking and the teacher always having to call out the engineer to fix them.

Are you a teacher nomiddlename?

Resources are important as otherwise we are back to the 'chalk and talk' of yesteryear. Yes IWB can be overused as textbooks were in the 1950's.

I think we will have to agree to disagree nomiddlename on the value of resources. I am no bleeding heart 'the poor little children' or am being taken for granted by senior management, just an ordinary teacher.

I don't see a problem with paying £5 towards to DT projects. When kids cook and bake at school they take in their own ingredients, which have been paid for through the household budget - what is the difference with paying up front for the teacher (school) to supply materials for a project.

Hmmm- £200 p.a. actually works out at £5 p.w. allowing for the fact there are 40 weeks in school year.

Yes captainnancy but I did it over a year as a teacher is paid the salary annually.

Nope - I'm not a teacher but almost did the gtp a couple of years ago so still take a big interest.

molly don't get me started on the cooking ingredients! DD told me on Monday morning that she needed hot choc, plus marsh mallows, plus a can of spray cream for that afternoon!

"Everything now is so enhanced, that's the reason why teachers are paying for resources." Er no... I agree with what Clopper said

"What do you think usual resources are? Toilet roll inners/ egg boxes? We are not allowed to use a lot of these things any more unfortunately due to ... you guessed it, health and safety! I agree you can plan lots of interesting things with free resources and imagination.

I don't think children miss out, but sometimes a few quid can give a more memorable and exciting experience, interesting materials to work with etc. My own children have had access to all sorts of craft equipment, but not all children do. The school, quite rightly in my view, concentrates the bulk of expenditure on English, Maths and ICT resources."

and " Resources are important as otherwise we are back to the 'chalk and talk' of yesteryear. Yes IWB can be overused as textbooks were in the 1950's."

I think most teachers I know have a similar attitude to Clopper.