Listening to children reading is not a good use of a teacher's time.

[seeker]

Honestly.

The children learn to read through all sorts of classroom activities. Reading aloud to an adult is only one small part of it, and one which can perfectly well be done by anyone who can read. So if you hear your child read every day, don't worry if he doesn't read to the teacher very often- he will be having lessons in all aspects of reading which he then practices at home with you, and in some schools on parent helpers, other volunteers, year 6s- anyone who will sit don with them for 5 minutes.

The teacher meanwhile is doing loads of other things- things which you need to be a trained teacher to do!

Over half of each lesson is spent whole class teaching, gaelicsheep.

The break supervision you describe is VERY unusual - what do you mean they are unsupervised? Most school playtimes are very heavily supervised by staff.

As for your last comment, as you yourself say, you don't know the full story. So maybe you shouldn't quote it to prove that the 'message' is that teachers are lazy. Just a thought.

Gaelic, i would say in a 1 hour lesson, 15-20 minutes is whole class teaching, 35-40 independent or group work (teacher continues to teach one group, I have used 2 worksheets for my class this academic year so such 'busywork' is uncommon IME) 5 minutes whole class plenary. Depends on the lesson, isn't too rigid now. Sometimes I do a 5 minute starter with children in small groups, then whole class teaching, then groups or individual again - but I teach for the full hour, just not the whole class all of the time.

I'm not sure where you are getting the messages from gaelicsheep but perhaps you should question your source as they seem to be very ill informed.

I've never experienced a school where breaks are unsupervised and I would question the practice on H&S grounds (size doesn't matter when it comes to safeguarding)

My children usually sit in groups but they are taught whole class and I don't have holding activities (busy work) so honestly 100% of my teaching is whole class.

Feenie, interestingly I would say that the half / half whole class / group work was the norm in my school until recently - but the feeling was following recent audits and visits and review of our practice that too many of the children were too passive. So there has been a conscious decision to move a little away from 'whole class input' to 'children doing more of the work, more of the time'... We shall see how it goes :)

I don't doubt that at all ninah. I can't find the Scottish news item I read about time spent in school - no doubt it was misreported.

However, many parents like me are extremely worried that without a considerable amount of effort spent teaching their children at home those children will leave school innumerate and illiterate. I've just had a teenage work experience placement - really bright but totally unable to spell even the most basic words, which will be a massive disadvantage for her when it comes to seeking employment.

I'm saying that in light of the doubts about the quality of teaching in this country, teachers as a group should be more careful about the impression they give to the media.

I should also say, having read mrz's post, that no group in my class has 'busywork' either. All groups have planned activities to move them on during the lesson - I have to regularly justify that every child makes progress in every lesson, and am observed against that criterion - and that simply isn't possible through 'holding work'. Some of those activities are adult-led by an adult working with that group throughout the 'independent /group work' part of the lesson. some of them have the children working independently. I would say that giving children the time and opportunity and skills of working independently or as a pair or group is teaching them too... as long as the activities still move them forward and are not simple rehearsal of things they could do before the lesson started.

We had the same a few years back, with the result that we made the whole class teaching so interactive that no one could possibly say children were passive for long! It works well, tbh.

you can do whole class teaching and challenge the children teacherwith2kids I don't spoonfeed ... they do the work

mrz - I can honestly say that I was told, by the school, that for schools under 40 pupils (I think that was the figure) they're not obliged to supervise breaktimes. I couldn't believe it myself, but that's what they said. And I agree about H&S - there have been incidents shall we say.

Feenie, I just suspect that gaelicwindup means 'teacher standing at the front doing chalk and talk to a neatly seated silent class;' when s/he uses the term 'whole class teaching' - and the picture that you and I have of that term is somewhat different! Some of what I call 'group / paired work' you might call 'interactive whole class teaching'...it's all a bit blurred! Is an activity carried out by children in talk partner pairs for 10 minutes before reporting back to the whole class 'whole class teaching' or 'group work'??

that is worrying gaelic
all I can say is that the teachers I've met have been committed to ensuring that children do embrace full literacy/numeracy
my mother worked in adult basic education with adults who had massive basic skills disadvantages so I know it can happen
teacher2kids I went to a talk the given by a head the other day where the stress was on minimal 'teaching' maximal active learning as you say
Personally I wonder how the massive changes in technology are going to affect literacy ... we spent ages teaching letter formation, but the likiehood is that most real communciation will be on keyboards ...

Mrz, sorry, probably wasn't clear that I was agreeing with you :) :) As I said to Feenie, I'd say the definitions are pretty blurred ... teach whole class input, children work on similar / same tasks differentiated by support or by outcome or by pre-teaching or by equipment in groups...whole class or groupwork??

mrz speaks perfect sense as usual. 10minutesX30 is 300 minutes which would amount to almost a full school day! When I first started teaching, in the days before guided, I was expected to read with each child twice a week - there was no way my time was spent productively on this- what do parents think the rest of the class are doing while the teacher is ploughing through the whole class, reading with each one? If parents are capable and dedicated to reading each night with their child then the teacher's time can be used far better elsewhere. If parents are not helping effectively then it is for the school to find ways of picking up those children and reading at school more frequently, whether that be TA or parent helpers. When the teacher reads with children it is largely for assessment purposes, rather than teaching.

Ummmm....for 10 minutes, then I would call it paired work, not whole class teaching. But I take your point totally

I still can't believe the break situation, gaelic, and if it was my ds's school I would be phoning Ofsted to check it out.

teacherwith2kids - sorry you felt the need to resort to name-calling. I would have thought that teachers would be concerned about the impression they give to parents. Some on this thread clearly are, although I'm sure everyone hates me right now. Personally I'm too concerned about my children's future to be too worried about teachers' feelings, and if talking very bluntly - even if I am ill-informed - gives anyone food for thought well that's good.

Ninah - yes it's very worrying, especially since said teenager came from the secondary school for which my DS's primary is a feeder school. We are not in a disadvanted area.

I have to say that we've had children in from a number of Scottish schools armed with completed (occasionally marked) collections of Heinemann worksheets and swathes of spelling/handwriting sheets, so things might be a bit different up there.

Indeed, and set to get worse if the CfE is anything to go by. I am trying very very hard to reserve judgement however. At least we don't have SATS - I'm thankful for that.

Oh come on, gaelic - you piled in to a thread full of teachers, full of misconceptions and calling teachers lazy. Oh yes you did! It might have been in a roundabout way, but you definitely did. Tbh, I think everyone has been quite polite to you, and answered your daft queries very sensibly. I think it's a bit rich therefore to get huffy.

Gaelic, the Scottish system IS different - and as fraidy says, worksheets / workbooks do seem to be more in vogue in many schools there.

If that is what you are referring to, then as most teachers on here teach in the English system you might be wanting to narrow your criticism down a little?

Luckily I have also learned that teaching my child to read, write and count is also apparently my job, not the teacher's, so I am well ahead on this obe

Don't they have a capped working week for teachers in Scotland??

Would love to know how that works in practice!

I'm not in the least bit huffy thanks. I haven't called teachers lazy, I'm saying that's the impression they often give as a group. They should think about that, and remember how many illiterate children leave school every year, before talking publicly about hearing reading not being their job.

It would perhaps have been politer to say 'in Scotland' rather than 'in this country' - and to ask whether the situation is the same in England, rather than to tar all schools all over the British Isles, and all teachers, with the same brush...

My new pupil (recently arrived from Scotland) can't read, write or add and is in my extra teaching group before school.