How does everyone feel about traffic light behaviour management?

[themightyfandango]

My DCs school uses this system. Up until this year it was just flash cards but now they have charts on the wall with every childs photo, if they manage to stay in green for a period of time they get a reward.

I have a child with SN (ASD) who is regularly in and out of amber and the occasional red and I have found since this new less discreet system has been introduced it seems to have made his behaviour more of an issue amongst his peers and other parents (evidence is on the wall for everyone to see).

Whilst I'm not suggesting my DC should be allowed to do as he pleases, the old system worked well and didn't make a massive deal out of it.

IMO children will do well and behave well if they are able, if they don't it is usually because of a barrier- special needs, family problems etc... for a lot of the children staying on green will be as natural as breathing. For the most part it will be the same kids negatively highlighted for their behaviour week after week.

I doubt my DC will ever be able to sustain appropriate behaviour for long enough to be rewarded in fact his behaviour seems to be worse since they introduced this.

I feel that for some kids using this as a one size fits all approach is probably a breach of the DDA.

I am interested in opinions as I am going to discuss this with the senco at our next meeting.

I don't like the public aspect of displaying a childs photo and how they are getting on.
Just seems the same as a "name and shame" board they had at a miserable sales job I had once - could ask the teachers if they would display their own photos next to their latest teaching observation grade.......

I disagree that staying on green is as natural as breathing for some kids. It's definitely easier for some than others but even those always on green make an effort and should be rewarded.

I would agree that children with SN may need different systems to NT children and that displaying photos is OTT. You would never see a website with rows of photos of criminals- why children?

I would also agree that it tends to be the same children on amber/red so the effect on those children is limited but I assume that such behaviour management systems are popular because they work for the majority and state schools are about catering for the majority.

They did this at dd's school in Reception, with photos. I think it's awful, and agree it's as natural as breathing for some kids to stay on green. It was for dd so she thought it was all great fun, and would come home daily with gleeful tales of x or y being on red AGAIN (and it always was the same few kids), which was all a bit horrible really.

I seem to remember being lightly flamed for saying this on here a while ago though, and I'm sure there will be teachers with another perspective on this - perhaps there is some evidence that it improves behaviour, although it certainly didn't appear to be the case at dd's school.

Interesting idea about the DDA

Thanks for your thoughts so far. I'm glad it's not just me who thinks the photo name and shame is a bit off.

One of the things I have always praised the school for was the fact my DC was never demonised as a 'naughty' boy but I am finding this is starting to be the case since this system started. I agree with Zephirine about the gleeful comments- I have heard these about my DC.

Surely it depends on how the school use it. After all, kids know who's likely to be disruptive, regardless of labels or photos. If your son has SN which affect his behaviour, then his teacher should take that into account when they apply whatever discipline system they use. If they don't, they're a lousy teacher tbh.

I've noticed in DS's class, it's been really helpful making unacceptable behaviour tangible. At ours, if they get three reds in a week, they have to go and see the Head Teacher. Three reds are incredibly rare, but it's a useful marker to throw at any rowdiness, so it's a plus for disruption as a whole. The only child who's had three reds this term is a pita, but definitely hasn't got special needs.

As the mother of 4 very well behaved children, I find it offensive to say that being well behaved come as easy as breathing.It doesn't. It requires a lot of groundwork on the parents' part and a lot of self discipline on the child's part.

i think they are wrong to have it up on a board with the kids photo next to it, my kids school did something similar with their name, but they dont do that now tho they still use the same system its not public who is on what colour etc.

and some kids do find it easier to behave than other, my ds1 does and always has done, as does ds3, but ds2 is a different kettle of fish altogether and finds it much harder, he just has a different kind of personality.

yes hard work and self discipline are part of it, but some children are of a different tempremant and personality that means they are not as inclined to misbehave, or they think more before they act.

my childrens school uses this i have no problem with it but my children dont normally misbehave. They do other things which are visible such as my daughter who has trouble concentrating gets an egg timer which could single her out i suppose but that is the nature of a classrooom. If your son misbehaves then the other children would be aware of it with or wihout the photo i should think.

As an aside, I've noticed that those kids in dd's class who are always on yellow/red are also the ones who go like the clappers and win all the races on sports day (unlike dd who was still tiptoeing up the track with her egg and spoon long after everyone else had finished ). It does seem as though some kids have a lot more energy and a lot more difficulty directing it appropriately in a classroom situation.

perhaps a compromise would be that at the end of the day everyone is reset to green.then if any prents do come in before or after school they won't see who is on which colour.however I am sure they all know from their Dc who the naughty kids are anyway.

Gosh yes the speedy sports day - I've got one like that ! - hadn't thought of that link before but yes definately some inate temprement thing going on.

I really like spiderpig8's compromise - the children knowing each other's traits is some how more comfortable than parents gossiping / noseing at the chart - could you suggest this OP ?

yes my sports mad ds2 is also my spirited slightly challenging child, as opposed to my sloth ds1

and our chart was always reset at the end of the day.

Hi, I'm a teacher in a primary school and we use this system but with names and not photos.
We differentiate what is expected and SN children have the strategy applied in a way that is appropriate to them.

We use the system as a reminder to those children who are perfectly capable of following the rules but choose not to and as a way to reward those who behave well.
We reset our boards each day and we also have 'instant' rewards for those on Gold at the end of the day.
I should also add that my DS (7) is currently being investigated for ASD/ADHD and he loves the behaviour management system in his class.... they move up a poster.... as it is visual and instant.

I can't bear these schemes.

I think that all schools who use them for their pupils should use a similar system in the staff room eg moving down for forgetting to collect home work, or give out a newsletter etc and see how useful and 'fair' they find it.

My preference is for actually talking to children.

I agree with neverputasockinatoaster.
The majority in the class deserve to be able to be able to be taught without disruption. I would expect SN to have the strategy applied in an appropriate way.
Many are not SN they just don't choose to follow the rules. DCs are very fair and if they choose to misbehave they should pay the price of that choice. You can't have them all doing just as they wish or it is 'survival of the fittest' as the noisy get their own way.

I would love the critics to have a day in the classroom on their own managing behaviour to see what they use and whether it works. It would be fascinating.

Perhaps someone would care to come back and say what they would do instead? The aim being for everyone to be able to work in peace and be listened to. Bearing in mind that not every teacher can just look at the class and get instant obedience and that, even if they can generally, it doesn't work with every DC.

My DS school use this. There are a few SN kids with challenging behaviour in DS class, and a couple of severely physically disabled, so there are a lot of different needs in the classroom for the teacher and TAs to be taking care of. One kid in particular is always on 'Red' - I'll call him 'J'. A while back I noticed a big cut on DS's back - a bloodstain on the back of his shirt and a cut on his skin - not deep, luckily. I asked what happened and he said 'J cut me with scissors'. I said 'Did you tell the teacher?' He said 'No I didn't and please don't tell her, Mum. J is always on red, and he never gets to do anything fun in golden time. It's not fair, he just can't seem to manage, and I feel sad for him. It isn't as easy for him as it is for me. He really tries but then it just all goes wrong for him.' I felt so sorry for both of them - DS for feeling responsible if he tells the teacher that J will be in trouble yet again and therefore putting up with being hurt (of course I did have a quick word with the TA and asked her to glance at DSs back when he was changing for PE but DS wasn't aware I did this).

And I felt sorry for J - I don't blame the traffic light system so much as the fact that J doesn't have the level of support he needs for his behaviour. And I worry with government cuts that the level of support he gets is not likely to increase. If he gets expelled from this primary (not unlikely given his behaviour) then where will he go? And then what will he do later? Going slightly OT but I'm responding to the thought that kids with SN need to be included in class without disturbing others. And thinking that the key to that might be the level of support they receive because a reward/punishment system implies a level of control over their behaviour that they just might not have.

Thanks for the further replies. It's good to hear different opinions.

I don't disagree that there needs to be behaviour management. I am concerned that my DC is not being differentiated because of his SN and is receiving punishment for somethings that he can't help e.g fiddling, fidgeting not following instruction sequentially.

Noone would punish a child in a wheelchair for not trying harder to walk.

I have discussed this with my CAMHS team this morning and they agree it's not helpful so they are going to attend my next school meeting with me.

Bless your DS bcstarsky, he sounds like a lovely empathatic boy although he shouldn't put up with being hurt of course.

Luckily my DS does not hurt anyone nor is his physical in anyway. He just struggles with change, is inflexible in his thoughts and finds staying on task very difficult (unless the subject is millitary history or WWE ).

becstarsky-you son sounds a very very sweet lovely boy.But misguided.If a child has attacked your son with scissors and drawn blood, then this needs reporting to the teacher ASAP.She needs to be aware- the next scissor inident might be a child blinded!!
(I am horrified that 5 YOs are given scissors sharp enough to cut a child' skin through clothing !Had it cut his shirt too?, how had the staff failed to miss ablood stain on a shirt?)

exoticfruits, my dc's school seem to mange a challenging intake (50% FSM, high SEN etc ) very well by talking to them and a variety of targeted intervention groups.

I think the point is that these behaviour management systems DON'T work for lots of children, hence the repeated threads about them on MN throughout the academic year.

You're right about DS - he is far too lovely and empathic - he worries about others too much and himself not nearly enough. During a lesson J had lifted DS shirt and jumper to cut him - hence the bloodstain on the shirt which the teacher hadn't seen as it was covered by the jumper. He'd scraped the blade along DS's back, so there was a cut, with a bruise which came up later. DS said he didn't cry, but it must have hurt him, poor mite (DS I mean). The TA saw the cut after I told her, didn't tell DS but talked to J's mum about it at their usual meeting. J has been sent home from school for this stuff so often now - I think it's a weekly meeting with his mum...must be so hard for the teachers. During DS's first year at primary he was bitten three times, had his head banged into a wall (on purpose) by a kid, was told by a group 'we're going to hurt you every day'...(all different kids - and DS is not the target of bullying - this is just the 'normal' level...) You know, if people did this to me at work, I'd be flippin terrified! DS knows he should always tell the teacher, but persuading him to do it is not so easy. But he will take my advice to stick with a big group of his friends and spend his break times playing football, so I think that mostly keeps him out of trouble these days.

I don't like it at all. DS will often walk out of the classroom saying 'James is on Red today' in front of all the parents. I understand the need for a behaviour management system but I think this one is too public, name and shame type management, and I def think it's much much harder for children with special needs to stick to some of the rules. I have a child with dyspraxia who finds it very difficult to sit in one position and he fidgets a lot. It's hard for him to sit down, expecially on a carpet, he has low muscle tone - if I learn that he has been on red because of his dissability, I will see red and will make sure that the teachers understand it's not his fault.

Can I also say that I find it deeply offensive that we are not prepared to accept that some children with dissabilities or special needs might disrupt the class, and that for some of them, sticking to the rules is very hard - I'm thinking about ASD in particular but also many other developmental issues. If as parents we accept that children with dissabilities are an integral part of our mainstream schools, we should also accept that their behaviour might pose some challenges.

Our primary school may start to use the traffic light system for behaviour. At the moment it is being disscused with the children. There is also talk about dinner time and after school detention for being on the red light for a period of time. Parents haven't been consulted about it yet, so i dont know if it will be voted on or we will be told that this is happening and have no say.

Blueberry, while I definitely 100% agree with you that we should be more aware of children with disabilities and managing them in the classroom (I am a teacher), the main problem in schools is lack of funding for extra members of staff to work alongside certain children and help them manage their behaviour.

What tends to happen is that the learning of the rest of the class is disrupted and the TA (if there is one) uses all her time dealing with specific children and has no time to support the class.

Schools need extra money and support to ensure that children are probably included and that disruption is kept to a minumum.