Things I don't understand about phonics

[robino]

DD1 is in reception so we're just starting out; they're using jolly phonics. Several phonics based questions have cropped up in my mind as we've been doing it so I thought I'd ask the wider MN wisdom. Unfortunately, it being early I can only remember the most recent one.

Y. We've just covered Y as in yoghurt and yoyo. All fine. Does Y at the end of words get covered, as in mummy, teddy etc? And why not at the same time?

I shall return with further questions when I've remembered them!

The alternative spellings are taught later on, once the children are secure with basic sounds.

Y at the end of mummy is taught alongside ee, as it makes the same sound
Bee mummy, also ie as in bonnie

Hope that helps

The school is teaching the 'Alphabet Code' where spellings are rooted in the 44ish sounds of English. First a 'simple code' is taught (1 spelling for each sound), then the main alternative spellings. This chart may help answer some of your questions:
www.phonicsinternational.com/unit1_pdfs/The%20English%20Alphabetic%20Code%20-%20complete%20picture%20chart.pdf
Also, Debbie's guidance booklet explains a great deal:
www.phonicsinternational.com/guidance_book.pdf

Thank you! That makes sense.

OK, have remembered another question. G and C. How do they teach the difference between hard and soft sounds? When I learnt Italian we were taught the simple (ish for an 18 year old) rule that they were hard if followed by an a,u o, or h + vowel and soft if followed by an i or e. It seems that that rule could apply in English (garage for example). I appreciate that for reception children it would be a lot to take in.

Maverick - I'm sorry. That chart answers my question, it's fantastic! Thank you

Italian is phonetically very regular. One letter almost always equals one sound, at most 2,with very straightforward rules (like the g/c one you mentioned)

English unfortunately has over 20 sounds for the 5 vowels alone,which is why reading is so much more complicated.

Loads of excellent primary teachers on here though, if you have any more queries you can put a callout for mrz or downbytheriverside (I think that's her full name!)

robino the school starts off by teaching the most common letter to sound relationships once these are taught the alternative ways of representing the sounds are taught. So children will be taught the letter "s" represents the sound then taught it can also be written with a "c" followed by an "i" "e" or "y" as in circle, cycle and nice ... that "j" represents the sound but it can also be written as "g" in giant and "dge" as in bridge

I'm 42 so didn't do phonics, in fact i can,t really remember learning to read. I just remember the moment everything 'clicked' as it were.

My child starts school next September and i an dreading phonics, it all seems so deliberately complicated. I really don't mean to sound glib, but i'm amazed that any child ever learns to read.

I suppose it just shows the talent and dedication of teachers. I feel i'll let my DD down, coz i really think phonics is beyond my capacity .

thepathankhanswitch - speaking as a newcomer to phonics, so far I'm just learning along with DD really and as previous posters have suggested, the scheme starts with the absolute basics and then builds. The links provided above are really good. I do feel positive about phonics after this brief time, DD is progressing so quickly. She wants to read and is still on the first ORT books which have no words so we're just reading any book she's interested in, she decodes words I think she can and I read words that contain sounds she hasn't covered yet. I have no idea whether this is recommended though.

Bucharest - Italian is so much simpler to read isn't it? The phonics international stuff linked to above has really highlighted to me just how bonkers the English language is!

I have a question about the word "who"....is it decodeable? Or justro be learnt by heart?

There are a number of words, Greythorne, which are classed as 'tricky words'. These are learned as whole words.

Some words (no, go..etc) are taught as tricky words very early on - and some high frequency words are taught as tricky words first until the child learns the 'rules' and is able to decode them.

Phonics is complicated. Our language is very complicated. That is why all the other things that come into play when we learn to read (context, whole word recognition..etc) are vital as other strategies. Reading is not decoding, it is way more than that.

Ok, thx
We are abroad and English is the DCs minority language.

Is there a listof tricky words?

robino its nice to hear that your DD is coming along nicely and reasssuring to hear that you don't seem at all intimidated. I went to see a school, and i did ask if they had phonics workshop, and they do, so maybe i will learn..

greythorne - the first 6 tricky words are I, no, go, to, the, into. Haven't got any further!

They are taught as words which are partially decodable - with a 'tricky' bit.

NOT whole words.

Greythorne who is decodable once the child knows the letters "wh" can represent the sound as in whole and whooping and "o" can represent as in to and do