Diplomatic families and school admisssions

[Bouviergirl]

Hi, I'm interested to find out if there are any other FCO diplomatic families out there with experience of returning to the UK from post / and school admissions?

We are due to return to the UK shortly and when we come to do the school admissions process, we won't have an address (rental or owned), so we are very unlikely to get into the schools of our choice. Just interested in others' experiences, tips, etc.

Many thanks

The Admissions Code has special provisions for Crown Servants which includes diplomatic families.

If the LA operates catchment areas they must treat you as meeting the residency criteria for the catchment area of any school for which you apply even if you don't have an address within the catchment area. You have to provide proof that you are returning from a posting.

Assuming you are applying outside the normal admissions round, the LA must allocate a school place in advance provided your application is accompanied by a letter from the FCO giving a relocation date and intended address and provided you would meet the admission criteria once you have relocated. They must not refuse a place simply because you don't currently live in the LA's area.

The LA must have a Fair Access Protocol which must provide for children of Crown Servants and state how places will be found for such children.

Your main problem is likely to be that popular schools will already be full if you are applying outside the normal admissions round, so you may find that your child/children end up at unpopular schools which may be some distance from your home.

The other problem you may face is that some LAs who don't regularly deal with Crown Servants and UK service personnel may not be fully aware of their responsibilities.

I hope it all goes smoothly for you.

You might want to put a copy of the admissions code for crown servants in with your application. We did this as the area we moved to didn't deal with Forces families regularly and they initially told us we couldn't even apply until we had an address, we then asked them to send us the forms and copied the code, highlighted it and sent it to them. I am sure your education coordinator (should have one at the office you use for all claims) will know which relevant bits to highlight

I thought foreign office children got private school paid for? Was a bit gobsmacked when I met a family with 6 children!

Polly that is a common myth like the fact that service personnel get their paid for, we only get an allowance and have to pay a minimum of 10% of the fees, most of us have to top up the 10% as the allowance has not kept up with the rises in private school fees. I think the FCO people have had their allowances cut more than the forces so they are more hard up than us.

Really? I just googled it and according to an article it was up to £20,000 per child. Which would be 120k for this family alone (low ranking diplomat) which is as much as the v deprived school my kids go to is getting from the extra pupil premium money. Which doesn't feel right, though I know at the same time it's important for kids to get continuation of education. This family of 6 was going to v well known public schools, which very few people would be able to afford esp if they choose to have such a large number of kids.

They don't get private schools paid for.

They may be eligible to receive Continuity of Education Allowance, which can also pay for an international or British school at their posting overseas. For some boarding is the preferred option, and the allowance covers those costs too - but depends on your recent and projected future postings profile. There are strict rules on how long you can claim for on return to UK. You can use the allowance to pay for state boarding too - but unless there is a massive expansion in state boarding, there just aren't enough places.

Polly think the article you googled may be a few years old in the last review they lost a lot of their boarding entitlement and other school allowances, I know the figures you quote are from an extract of the independent review published about 5 years ago (I think)

But isn't it still 6k per child per term? Which is a lot for six kids/one employee. But at same time I do see how important it is for service/fco children to have stability. It's difficult, but I keep coming back to how smug this family was to have their four sons at eton!

I don't know what the current ceilings are (we're military, not FCO) but I goggles and found this in a PQ about how they decide how much:

"CEA is based on ceilings, up to which boarding school fees are met. These are set annually at the median of the fees charged by the schools in the Headmasters' Conference within a 70-mile radius of London; most members of the Diplomatic Service have a home near London and choose schools in the south-east. Members of staff must cover the difference themselves if the fees of the boarding school they send their children to exceed the CEA ceilings".

If the ceiling is £18k pa, that family has either secured bursaries as well as of the allowance, or is shelling out over £36k per year in excess of CEA. So the diplomat can't be that junior, or they have private means. The smugness must be deeply irritating, but isn't actually part of the package!

I also found online a response to an FOI request - there were 339 FCO families receiving CEA for boarding fees in 2009/10, for c.500 children.

Oh yes, they've got a private income too, but not enough to pay for the whole lot of the fees. As you say the smugness isn't part of the Education Allowance! It just seemed from what they were saying that their decision to have lots of children was partly facilitated by having 18k per kid towards private school fees. They even said as much, that they were having so many because it meant they got more money in perks, the same sort of reasoning MPs used with their home flipping.
I think their fees are 30k pa so they're still shelling out 12k per child so perhaps they shouldn't feel quite so smug!

Why do you care so much?

I care because I am a taxpayer, and no private employer would be able to afford to take on an employee with six children and give them each an allowance of £18k p.a.
These children will be entitled to this allowance for 12 years, for ease of maths lets say 12 years at £20kp.a. = £240k, multiply by 6 kids is the guts of £1.5million quid paid tax free as an additional benefit.
This from a country which is cutting the funding for surestart.

Anne boarding schools usually start at 8 at the earliest - so that would be a max of 10 years. The military allowances don't start until then. I agree it is still a lot of money but is part of their terms and conditions of service. Remember if families are abroad then international schools are very expensive too and yes private employers who have employees abroad IME do pay for boarding school fees and often in full unlike the Military and FCO.
Polly your smug friends sounds awful. A slightly unusual approach as you have pointed out they are contributing at least £4000 per child per term themselves depending on extras etc

Anne The parents have to pay a contribution and the 18K figure is for senior school only so that is only yr9 onwards the lower schools allowance is less. There are actually quite a few private companies that take on employees and then pay for their childrens education and they are not allowed to ask you how many you have before employing you or sack you as you had 6 children once you got married having already been employed by them as that would be discrimination.

sorry going X post.

You may also want to look at thisit points out some of the myths that the outside world thinks about the military CEA

oh anne.

we all have six children each just to bankrupt the country. it's a fact. not just one family with private means at all. no no. not at all. certainly not. and we get them born at 8yo just so we maximise the cea allowance. and then get started on the enxt one. it's a known fact that men and women who agree to die for their country if necessary are really only interested in bringing it to its knees. oh yes.

the vast majority of forces families subject their kids to annual or two yearly school and country/ continent moves to keep their kids with them. but some kids really can't cope with that much disruption to their education and there has to be a sensible solution which is part funded by the tax payer, or there wouldn't be a military at all.

but back on topic, op we just used to do everything online - e-mail schools, find out where has spaces, call the ht's, discuss how they wanted to proceed given dates etc. we've never had a problem. some of the schools have been a little unexpected on actually getting there, having sorted out places sight unseen, but it's all been fine. preparation is the key.

mad or had a pay freeze for the last 2 years..... we don't count!!!!

You sound jealous because you feel they are getting something you are not. Go and apply for a service/diplomatic job then.
My husband works along side a huge british company out here in middle east, they pay for private school fees AND they are not tax payers!! bet your head is spinning.
My husband pays a lot of tax and not able to use a lot of Uk services while we are out here, can we have a refund

Coccyx I want a refund on my taxes for the fact that I don't use the state school system (well not for some of my DCs as I have 4 deliberately so I could send them away as I just want someone to look after me in my old age, when they are rich due to their public school connections) Also not that as I pay tax as I don't work because I follow my husband around and sip cocktails on the patio

I'm an accountant who has worked for major int plcs and can assure you that although paying fees, home flights, living expenses etc is accepted as part of an overseas package, the total cost is looked at and a role is unlikely to be offered to someone requiring that kind of overhead, unless they are a very senior figure where it made up a small part of their renumeration - which is not supposed to be the case here.

I wasn't knocking the CEA system in general just the fact that 6 kids (if the story is true) costs a lot and the job could probably be done by somebody else at a much smaller cost, and the person with 6 kids could be working in England as there are many London based jobs.

I too would like a reduction on my tax bill for not using state schools, but then so would the childless - not going to happen is it.

Anyway, with the loss of the EMA, withdrawal of Surestart funding and other cutbacks in education those of us fortunate enough to be able to pay for private schools really shouldn't be looking for tax breaks.

As an accountant I don't understand how someone non-domiciled and working in the middle east is liable for British Tax.

OP good luck

Re the poster with the friend with boys at Eton Last I looked Eton is about 30K pr year to send your child to so do the match 30x 4 120.000 out of that they get 18 K pr child giving them 72000 that still leaves them 48K a year to find. I am aware not all 4 boys might have been at the same time but even for one child your talking 12K a year to find far out of many peoples means especially with other children to find.

All Crown servants (military, OGD) pay UK tax wherever they are posted, in UK or elsewhere. That has always been the case, and for everyone.

The FCO is made up of people who spend the bulk of their career in British diplomatic posts overseas - it's not like a company with a handful of overseas representatives (unless you take all of Whitehall, other parts of the civil service, and many other public bodies as the basic "home base company").

And the level of CEA (and other allowances generally) for British public servants is generally considered low - indeed derisory by other companies who keep moving staff round the world (eg oil, insurance, aviation sectors).

The military and I believe all the public sector also prefer to post the right person to the job (and pay whatever allowances are required): two reasons I believe: a) posting the best person maximises the chance the job will be done well, and they believe this is best done on merit, not fecundity, and b) it's actually illegal to decide postings on non-work related issues, and one or two tribunal awards would wipe out any savings.

I am aware that forces and Fo staff always have to pay UK taxes, but one poster claimed that her husband worked for a multi-national in the Middle East, which just doesn't make sense.

I am a £ and shillings, black and white person and I am saying things are as they are in the private sector. Things are pretty bleak in the UK at the moment and we haven't even really started cutting costs, it will probably get worse for years. It makes sense to me to arrange a workforce in a way to get the best possible value, rather than have to cut staff, as the loss of work seems to be devestating families all around the UK at the moment. To me this should apply to all workforces public or private.

Anyway, I've gone completely off piste, so I'm not going to read or write anymore on this topic.