guy fawkes in catholic schools

[3duracellbunnies]

My dh is catholic as are the children, they are in a state school as we couldn't get to the RC school and I like being able to walk to school. Anyway, dd1 and dd2 are doing gunpower plot etc. They are in yr 2 and reception. Dd2 told me today that they had been learning about how guy fawkes was really nasty, etc. I tried explaining some of the background, they are quite into horrible histories so are aware of many of the characters. Apparently their class aassembly will be on it too. Just wondering what is taught in RC schools and any suggestions on the approach to take. We are quite happy to go to bonfires etc and are not anti parliament (well depending on what they are doing); just want to know the best way to help her understand that there are a number of perspectives on history, and appreciate her own cultural and religious background.

You do it straight, as you would for any group. It's describing an event of British history, not making any point about current interfaith relations. If you are uncomfortable, just stress it happened a long time ago (you could even add as an example that times have changed that the bar Catholics succeeding to the throne will shortly be lifted).

The only school in Britain that has never celebrated Bonfire Night is St Peters, York. Apparently they think it's poor taste to burn Old Boys.

how is guy fawkes being catholic is relevant to the bonfire night? i really am puzzled.

James I was Protestant and basically tried to clamp down on Catholic practices - basically the theory of 'Divine right of Kings' - i.e. that they are appointed by G-d - is completely undermined if of a different denomination.

Guy Fawkes was supposedly involved in a Catholic plot to blow up Parliament - i.e. terrorist of the time, standing up for Catholic rights and we 'celebrate' him being caught in the nick of time. However, there is also the historical opinion that the whole plot was a set up by one of James I's advisers to try to mak the Catholics look worse in the king's eyes.

Interestingly enough, I did my A level history dissertation on James I and witchcraft - he wrote a book on the evils of witchcraft and persecution of 'witches' was rife during his reign, especially in the NW where I am from. I came to the conclusion that a lot of the practices considered to be witchcraft actually fell in with Catholic practices so was just a huge cover up for the persecution of Catholics. A fascinating period of history.

My (Catholic) school didn't celebrate bonfire night on the basis it wasn't in the spirit of Catholicism to celebrate the death of someone (other than the obvious, clearly). That was all we were taught about it, which seems rather lapse now I think about it.

Well, you could tell your children that one person doing a bad thing does not make their whole faith a bad thing. Unless, of course, you think the idea to blow up parliament was a reasonable one... in which case, you have an awful lot of explaining to do.

Pecanpie. I did the same at History A Level!
My catholic school did not celebrate Bonfre night. My Irish catholic DH has never celebrated it. When he first moved over here he didn't have a clue what it was.
I think the religious sentiment of it isn't widely known and could it be that it wasn't meant in that way?

i am sorry pecanpie, i should have phrased my question more carefully. i was puzzled why his religious affiliations would be relevant to the children in reception as you can easily explain the whole affair avoiding the religious context completely. once they are a bit older - of course this angle has to be thoroughly explained, but then they are much more equipped to deal with multi-dimentionality (is there such a word ) of complex historical events , also incluidng blatant inaccuracies. history is written by the victors and all that.

In Lewes they burn not only an effigy of Guy Fawkes, but also the pope of that time. So something to do with anticatholic feeling there.

You could, of course, also tell them that it is in pretty bad taste to celebrate someone's death with bonfires and fireworks, but that would probably spoil a fun night out for them. If you just do the fireworks bit without the throwing a "Guy" on the bonfire, you can just view it as a night celebrating the prevention of what would have been a horrible, murderous crime, whoever did it, of course. The fireworks are just an explosive reminder of what could have happened.

Most schools will teach the background to the story Queen Elizabeth (protestant) dies without an heir - throne offered to James VI of Scotland (his mother was Mary Queen of Scots and Catholic) so Catholics expected him to be sympathetic to their cause - he wasn't and he treated them badly so some influential Catholics employed Guy Fawkes (was brought up as a protestant and was a paid mercenary) to blow up parliament - one of the plotters wrote to his relative to warn him not to go on the 5th Nov and he warned the king - Guy Fawkes was captured and killed and people remember

Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, twas his intent
To blow up king and parliament.
Three score barrels were laid below
To prove old England's overthrow.

By God's mercy he was catched
With a dark lantern and lighted match.
Holler boys, holler boys, let the bells ring
Holler boys, holler boys, God save the King.

We always went in for the fireworks and bonfire but forgot about the guy - not in the best taste to burn one of your own! Don't forget you can point out to the children that the Catherine wheel is a tribute to St Catherine and her committment to her faith...may be not at their age...I'd say tell them how it is - in age appropriate terms - I view it as part of my cultural identity and I don't think we should forget the persecution that the Catholics suffered. It's a good reminder to all of us that on the one hand we should not persecute people for being different, and on the other not to let terrorism grow in our communities. I don't suppose you can think of any modern day analogies can you...?!

Thank you, that has given me lots of good ideas, we have already discussed whether war can ever be right etc, so I guess it is time to move on to terrorism and freedom fighters. I think it is important for her to understand that there is more to the stories.