Help. I simply don't know what to do.

[Makkapakkaakkawakka]

This is my first post so please bear with me. My DD is in year 1 of our excellent local state school. My eldest is already there, it's a lovely school with a good head, great teachers, nice children and we have had no cause to complain at all. However, DD has never settled properly and I don't know whether to move her. I should make it absolutely clear that she's doing really well academically, I have no issues with that side of things at all but she's not very happy. She doesn't say as much but we have noticed that her behaviour deteriorates considerably at the end of the holidays and she doesn't want to talk about school. She doesn't cry or anything about going to school she is just completely indifferent about every aspect of it.

She is has struggled hugely socially and hasn't really made any proper friends. She is very shy and awkward and very independently minded, she doesn't follow the crowd and can come over as rude and unfriendly when she feels uncomfortable. She had a very poor teacher in reception who did nothing to address this despite several meetings with her but her current teacher is much more proactive and is working with us to help her. She has recently been left out of a few social things, and I don't think that it's because people don't like her but more that they simply don't register her. She is currently oblivious to this but going forward she isn't going to be and will be very upset.

I have made it my business to invite most of the girls in her class over to play and whilst they have had a nice time it doesn't appear to have facilitated any friendships in school and the arrangements are only reciprocated when I have approached the mums for another date and they then invite DD back.

I am happy with what her teachers are doing but both DH and I feel that she would thrive more in smaller school where she would be in a class of less than 20 and where she would get more of a chance to make herself known in the hope that it would build her confidence. Given that she's not openly complaining about school and we are happy with her learning it is very difficult to know if we are just having a knee jerk reaction to normal year 1 relationships or if another school would make a difference. We have been actively thinking about whether she is in the right place for the last year and have gone backwards and forwards 100 times but never feel satisfied with her being there. It is a real gut feeling that we have never had before, as i said before my eldest is thriving and we wouldn't consider moving him. My other concern is that if we move her then we might just be taking the problem with us. It isn't terrible but it's not great and is ok good enough?

I would really value any advice and suggestions. The school we have in mind is a very small private school of about 120 children and one class of 18-20 in each year compared to the 2 classes of 30 at her current school. There is a small waiting list so she wouldn't be able to move immediately but I would anticipate a place coming up at some point in the next year or so.

If she can't find any friends out of 30 kids, I don't understand why you think she'll be able to find a friend in a class of 20.

I think there is a problem. And school are helping you with it.

I don't think moving is the answer - because I think the problem is in her, not in her school or her class or her teacher.

I think I would give her current teacher a chance to help turn the situation around. Nothing wrong in having regular meetings with the teacher to ask for her honest opinion and help with the situation.

You could put her on the waiting list if you think she wouldn't get a place this academic year.

I suppose if she were mine I would want to know what skills dd needed to learn and for her to learn at least some of them before I moved her.

I am surprised you call it an "excellent" school given your DD is so unhappy & you had such criticism for her reception teacher.

No invite back to playdates is normal ime, unless you are a solidly part of the parental circle. Especially for girls! (Don't ask me why)

I moved DS1 at start of y6 because his social status had plummeted to zero & he was picked on a lot. So I kind of understand, but your attitude sounds much more proactive, You want the teacher to actively interfere to support her making friends? I just wanted them to intervene before DS lost his temper.

The school we moved DS1 to has class sizes of 7-10 in primary, So really small, where they could truly boast about pastoral care on offer. I'm not sure that 18-20 is good enough to ensure the sort of support you want (sorry).

Different child, DS2, is fine all holidays & then throws a mega-paddy on first day of school, (Oh joy ) he's now y3, I would expect a pattern more like that if something in school time was really a problem.

I suggest a social club like Rainbows (Guides) might better address the problems you're worrying about.

I think that you both make good points. I think that our rational is that if she were in a smaller class then she wouldn't get so lost in the crowd and it would build her confidence which is what we feel is happening at the moment. We are meeting with her teacher once a month and reviewing her progress which is why I am quite happy about having to wait for a place in another school as this buys us more time to make a decision.

A structured out of school activity like rainbows might help.

Its possible that she is just a natural loner but has picked up on the fact that friendships are something that other people value so she is upset that she isn't quite conforming. Square peg in a round hole and all that.

Thank you Ragged. The school we are considering is one of the smallest ones around and a fraction of the size of the current school so seems tiny to me. She is down for rainbows but they don't take them until the term before their 6th birthday but I think that she will enjoy it. She also does swimming and gymnastics but they are more solitary and don't require team co-operation. I take your point about the parents being involved, that is very much the case in a way it isn't with the mums in my eldests class, perhaps boys parents are more laid back.

Tricky. In a smaller class, she may not get lost in the crowd. But she might also find that there's already a small, close-knit circle of girls that she struggles just as hard with. I'm thinking of the problems that my friend's daughter had in a class where there were only 8 girls and the other 7 didn't like her .

Purely on the basis of what you've written, I think you are doing the right thing by reviewing regularly with her teacher. And it is probably too early in the year to know whether that's going to help. Playdates also take a while to be reciprocated IME, but if they are going well when you invite kids over, keep at it.

I would also second the idea of trying Rainbows, as an alternative environment in which to practise her social skills.

Swimming and gymnastics might be great sports for someone like her. You are part of a club or a squad so it is social but you are constantly being instructed so no 'dead' time for awkward silences or being left out, you get the feeling of being part of a team without the pressure of a team sport like football where you have to anticipate what people are doing.

Achickencalledkorma: one of my big reservations about moving her is definitely issues involved in breaking into an established group and that it would be even worse if that doesn't work.

Sabrina. I didn't think of swimming and gymnastics like that but actually that may well be a reason why she enjoys them both. She doesn't tend to chat much to anyone there but she enjoys them a lot and is good at them.

It's a difficult one and I think you are doing as much as possible. The school also seem to be doing their best. I would have concerns about moving her...she may become even more isolated if she is naturally shy and has to take on a new class. My experience of moving schools (due to house move) is the "new" girl is an attraction initially but you as a Mum you will have to work hard to get to know the other Mums as well. If your child is as quiet and shy as you say she is she may even find it harder to break into established groups.
Have you considered activities like Drama/dance groups? Also, see what activities the other girls in her class are doing, try and organise one that she may have some interest in.
Sometimes there are some children who are naturally quiet but independent at the same time...a school change will not change their personality.
Best of luck in whatever you choose.

If you are happy with the school, and they are aware of the issue and working in the same direction as you, I wouldn't move her. It sounds like she is just socially different (maybe a result of her being academically above average?), and she will either a) cotton on and start learning social norms by trial and error like most children, or b) just remain herself and not need people as much as most. Similar to my DD2 (Y1) who is academically successful and plays mostly (when she plays at all at playtime, rather than read her book or do her drawings) with her sister's year (Y3) and the Y6s!

On the flipside, my DD1 (Yr3) is now really quite sociable (after a very antiscoial toddlerhood-YR) and having moved school twice, is struggling to make headway in established friendship groups. And that is in a small school, where I already know a lot of the parents. However, when she moved into the 2nd school (in Yr 1) she did fit in quickly. So if you are going to move her, you are better off doing it sooner rather than later - since groups seem only to become more established with age.

I don't think I am telling you anything you don't know; like the posters above, I think it is probably more about your daughter's personality, not about her environment - and that may or may not change over time. All the best with a difficult decision.

Rainbows is for girls aged 5-7 years, in NI it's from age 4. No reason why she couldn't have started already unless it's waiting list related? And if you offered to be a unit helper at the unit, they can take more girls - just a thought.

I agree with others about not moving her. You have said it is a good all round school, and the social issues your child has will be the same at whatever school she is at.

If the current school are working with her to help her through this,this is good. The next school might not.

Encouraging playing at the park, making friends outside, playcentres etc will be of great benefit where she can talk to other children without the pressure of them being from school and familiar faces

Drama is excellent, and some very shy children flourish at this.

Also marshall art type activities, ie taikwando, judo etc., seems to do wonders for unconfident children - I have seen many children change as a result of these activities.

What sort of child does your DD like? Look for common themes which will help when you want to invite children around

Give her another life, outside school ... Rainbows, music, gym ... anything where she can go with a clean slate. Ask her what interests her.

I would leave her for now as she still is very young and their friendships are indeed fleeting at this age. I would chill out about her friendships - seriously I wonder what a "proper friendship" is for a Year 1 child. I think it probably varies enormously. When's her birthday, is she young in her year- you see I think maybe the Reception teacher just considered some of the stuff "normal" for her age and would come right as her social skills develop.

I would leave the school friends issue alone if you can but as others have said take her to one or two other groups that may boost her confidence and where she can make different friends. My friend did this with her year 1 boy- took him to football and he immediately found some new friends who were perhaps more his kind of friend than the boys in his class.

I would keep an eye on school, and think about moving her for the start of year 3 or something if you think that's a good idea.

I think "she is completely indifferent" maybe shows that she's not that bothered- does she really have a problem, or is it you thinking she does? Was she bothered to be left out of some of the social things? Were you? Not pointing the finger, but suggesting as you say that perhaps your reaction is a tad over-strong.

Do you have any Mums you are good mates with whom she might find friendships with their kids? Neighbours?